EP 255: Healing Your Inner Teenager

What comes to mind when I say the words “teenage girl”? Some common ones I hear are:

Mean.
Catty.
Overly emotional.
Overly sexy.
Scary.

 Is this the real story about teen girls or something else?

 What were YOU like as a teenager?

This week on the podcast I am sharing my conversation with author Chelsey Goodan.

Chelsey Goodan is the author of the USA Today national bestseller, UNDERESTIMATED: The Wisdom and Power of Teenage Girls, which has been endorsed by Oprah Daily, saying: “If you have a teenage girl in your life, you need to read this.”

Chelsey has been an academic tutor, mentor, and empowerment coach to teenagers for 16 years and serves as the Mentorship Director of DemocraShe, which supports and guides girls from underserved communities into leadership roles.

She speaks regularly to audiences about gender justice, conducts workshops, and as a keynote speaker, she teaches communication strategies that create psychological safety for everyone from teenage girls to CEOs.

Featured on The Today Show with Hoda & Jenna, NBC News Daily, Reese Witherspoon’s Hello Sunshine, and in TIME Magazine, Chelsey’s thought leadership explores humanity’s potential for authenticity, liberation, and empowerment.

This conversation with Chelsey got me even more fired up for the future because I love teenage girls. They have so many good ideas!

Please listen to the interview and let me know what you think.

Transcript:

[00:00:00] Pals, I'm so glad you're here today because today's guest is somebody who, when her book came out, I don't know, 15, 20 people DM to me and was like, hello, you have to get this person on your podcast. Hello. You have to read this book. This might be a book club situation. So I read the book and I contacted our guest and I said, Oh, we, we need to get you on the podcast because relevant content coming.

[00:00:27] So for those that have not yet met you, who are you and what do you do in the world? Thank you so much. I'm Chelsea Gooden. I wrote the book, Underestimated the Wisdom and Power of Teenage Girls, and it is based off of my work that I worked with teenage girls for 16 years, first as an academic tutor, and then I also volunteered my time as a mentor for girls from underserved communities.

[00:00:52] And it was definitely a different angle on the relationship to teenagers, where I was invited into a really rare space [00:01:00] of trust that I find. Parents are not invited into and adults are rarely invited into and this is when they told me all of their secrets of how They want what they care about in the world how they want to be spoken to what they value how they how we can better See them and understand them and connect with them and so in collaboration with them They're very much quoted in my book all throughout.

[00:01:24] I and they gave notes on edits. I very much Became their microphone for what they want to say to the world and I have become a translator of sorts from a teenager, teenage girl to a parent or to adults or to honestly society at large because what I learned is that their solutions to the world's problems are here.

[00:01:45] better than many solutions that are around us right now. And we are not listening to them. We're not respecting their voice and opinion and matters. And that's what I'm all about. We are underestimating them. And when I, the reason why I find the [00:02:00] book to be so compelling is

[00:02:05] Gen Z girls, Are a different. They're right. They've been raised differently in a very different culture than millennial girls. Gen X girls and boomer girls and the I would say the prevailing kind of conversation around teenage the teenage years. is ill. God, it's something to be endured and they're awful and they're unreasonable and they're scary and that eventually your kid might end up liking you again.

[00:02:36] And what's funny, I, because that was like the, the, the messaging swirling around having a teenager. I have a daughter. She was now a teenager. And I've been so afraid of the teenage years, Chelsea. I am like, oh my god, it turns out I love teenage girls. I loved being a teenage girl. [00:03:00] But I also love raising one.

[00:03:03] Yeah, they're so unfairly judged. And this whole idea, you know, right when you tell a person that you're having a baby girl instead of a baby boy, everyone's like, oh, you're in for it. And it's this huge negative frame put on the situation. And the teenage girl's huge. They are so tired of that sense of judgment and criticism of being considered emotional and dramatic and mean.

[00:03:27] Oh my gosh, the amount of people I said when I was writing this book, they were like, But they're so mean! And I was like, Oh my gosh, teenage girls do not come out of the womb mean. Right? Like, there is a society who's actually not being very nice to them and judging them, and they may just be responding to that, but also, like, You're clearly we're just underestimating the value that they have and I, I'm, that's a huge part of what I'm doing is, is throwing away all those stereotypes and actually listening and respecting them.

[00:03:59] And you're right, that [00:04:00] now that you're experiencing having a daughter, oh my gosh, the amount of just wise, philosophical, heartfelt ideas they have about things, it's, it's phenomenal. I mean, they're so. I guess the word I use is wise, right? Like, and that's what always that's not usually, it's not usually a word that's attributed to teenage girls, but it's, it's a thing.

[00:04:20] I feel like it's one of those things where people are like, well, I like the teenage girls that I know, but it's all the other teenage girls. And I'm like, I, you know what, I think a lot of this comes down to, we need to deal with our own teenage baggage. Because like the ways that you talk about how to get your teenager to talk to you, how to get your teenager to listen, how to get your teenager to engage in the world and for you to like see this person blossom is so different than how most of us were raised.

[00:04:59] It's like you have [00:05:00] a coach approach, which is you come at them with curiosity. You come at them with like curiosity. Well, what are your thoughts about how to solve XYZ problem? And here's the thing. They have innovative ideas because they are fresh on the earth, right? They've only been here, what, 14, 15, 16 years, but they've come to age this age during a time where they they're tech natives.

[00:05:27] They have a definitely a bigger worldview because of social media and that they can see what's happening around the world. And it's fascinating. How, how, who, when you originally wrote the book, who was the audience for this book? Well, you know, my editor and publisher would say parents. And when I originally envisioned it, I had a lot more to deal with I feel like everyone, because I feel like everyone has a teenager inside of them.

[00:05:59] Like, [00:06:00] certainly women have a teenage girl inside of them, to what you were talking about that needs healing. And, you know, we talk a lot about healing your inner child, but healing your inner teenager, which my book addresses in an interesting way, is a different developmental stage. And we had different wounds that happened during that time of our lives.

[00:06:18] So the different chapter titles, right? Right. People pleasing, perfection, self doubt, beauty. These things that are all, you know, they wound us during those years. And then what I found is those wounds we carry into womanhood. And then we project it back onto the kids, right? Like, so exactly what you're saying, we're projecting a lot of our own baggage, a lot of our own stories onto the girls.

[00:06:42] And so often they're just like, that's not my story. You know, that's not who I am. And instead, if we listened with curiosity. Met them where they are and actually figure out who was in front of us rather than a narrative or an old story we have about girls being mean to each other. And, and we are, we're [00:07:00] perpetuating the cycle by saying that out loud, over and over, girls are mean.

[00:07:04] Yeah. Okay, then let's keep, you know, what have we started saying out loud all the time? Girls support girls, women support women. That's the message now. And we have done better, right? Like Gen Z is the first generation that's. finally experiencing that in a bigger way, they know, they hear that messaging more than any generation before.

[00:07:23] And I see the shift happening. Have we perfected it? No, but it is, it is a clear shift happening and it is so exciting to me. So I'm all about putting those words out into the world. And so that's just one example of how we can better You know, first deal with our own healing and, and then it also deactivates the triggers and charge we have when a teenage girl says something annoying to you and you're just like we're overreacting or something and creates a fight.

[00:07:51] It's actually has a lot more to do with our own triggers and figuring out why did that hit me so hard. How can I heal that first. Yeah, why don't, why do I have to [00:08:00] fight with my teenager about something. That's really inside myself. It's it I it's absolutely fascinating. And what's so funny is when you said it about Gen Z.

[00:08:10] Hey, I see that all over the internet, like if you if you happen upon especially on Tick Tock, if you happen upon young women's feed, and she is hyping up a friend or even herself. Everyone in the comments is like, yes, clean it, own it. There's no more like, you're too big for your britches, or you're not all that.

[00:08:37] It's like, I'm like, I would like to hang out with these gals. Totally. They're like slay. I mean, they do it on my, you know, all the time I care about, they do it to me. And I'm like, yeah, that feels good. Thank you. And I, it's so interesting because a lot of people think the girls are all tearing each other apart on social media.

[00:08:53] And my experience has been predominantly how much they, they call it like gassing each other up. They amp each other up and [00:09:00] really support each other most often. I mean, Certainly, there is a toxic aspect and we can address it, but I also really like to put a frame on all these positives that are happening too.

[00:09:10] Me too. And I will say, I have two, two things. One, I used to be a third grade teacher, which means third graders, are not yet peer centric. So they are still like, teacher, will you be my best friend? And I'm like, yes, I will. I have 20 best friends. This is the best. However, by the end of third grade, you're practically a fourth grader and that means you're starting to look outward and that can get to be a little bit of like the, the, it's like mean girl, light in girl light.

[00:09:40] If you will, I just would like to take this moment to share an observation, and that is every. Child girl who was exhibiting mean, competitive nonsense. Her mom did that too. [00:10:00] And I was like, this, this apple real close to the tree. So, mom, it comes back to the moms. Like, let's, let's stop tearing each other down.

[00:10:09] Let's gas each other up so that our daughters will do the same. And then, interestingly, because I'm super Gen X In 1990, I remember I was standing in my friend's apartment and I said something unkind about my appearance. And my friend Jeannie, shout out to Jeannie Parker, she said, Oh yeah, we're not doing that anymore.

[00:10:33] Yeah. I'm sorry. What, what, what are we not doing? And she's like, we're not running ourselves into the ground anymore. And I said, we're not. And she said, no, I was like what are we doing instead? And she said we're going to acknowledge that we have bodies and that they and that they are probably going to look.

[00:10:51] as cute now as they ever are, and we're just going to not worry about that stuff because the rest of the world wants to bring [00:11:00] women down because of misogyny, and we're not going to play that game. And I was like, I learned a lot of things in this little interaction with my friend first, first time I ever heard the word misogyny.

[00:11:11] And also I was like, wait, we can do things differently. We can have different conversations. Yes, we can have agency. And that is actually what I do a lot about is I give the agency back to the girl that she can tell the story that is right for her. She doesn't have to be a victim to the story coming at her, right?

[00:11:29] Which has a lens of misogyny so often or judgment is the way I often put it in judging her looks, judging how she should talk, how she should act, how she should be perfect and likable at all times. And I, you know, in the beauty chapter, I talk about how You know, everyone's so mad at society for putting beauty standards out there.

[00:11:49] Yes, that is, it's really hard and that's not in our control. But the one thing that is in our control is how we choose to use our own words, how we talk about our own body in [00:12:00] front of girls. And that's actually what the girls told me over and over is they're like, well, actually, I wish my mom wouldn't just insult her body all the time or tell her, say that she looks ugly or something.

[00:12:09] Say that you be on a diet for 20 years straight. You know, like the girls see all of that. We are modeling the behavior for them and this commentary. I mean, we still learning that the point that we don't realize commentary on a girl's body is so harmful. We should not be commenting on their body. At all.

[00:12:27] Even when it's positive, they're a little like, okay, well, I guess I was bad before, you know, like they, there's no, there's not a lot of winning in commentary and judgment on people's looks and bodies. That is such a good way to put it. It's so funny. A number of years ago, my dad's a real big commenter on people's bodies.

[00:12:45] And you know, I have a young daughter and he was commenting on somebody's weight loss. And I said, dad, right in front of my daughter. And I was Pops. I need you to stop talking for a second. I need you to listen. And he's like, okay, what? And I go [00:13:00] one, we don't comment on people's bodies in general because we are more than our bodies.

[00:13:08] And I said, two, people's value does not go up in correlation to their pant size going down. So a woman shrinking her body does not make her more valuable in the bigger picture of life. And he was like, I don't, he's like, I don't. And I was like, so I'll simplify it for you. Stop commenting on people's bodies.

[00:13:30] It's rude. Just, just stop. Good for you. And look at you interrupting and breaking the cycle, right? Like it usually takes a conversation like that because he wasn't conscious to that idea before. And that's what I have learned, honestly, doing this press tour. And people really haven't thought a lot about this or, like, talked about it a lot.

[00:13:50] I mean, that's why I love podcasts like yours. Like, this, this We really need more exposure to this. The new the new way of doing things, right? And so I'm [00:14:00] excited to see the ripple effect in motion and that we can just make it better and better for the next generation and to your point to about how the moms were the ones also being really like doing the gossip and being mean and so on.

[00:14:12] Gosh, is that true? And I often ask you know, I ask the girl when there's a mean girl situation at school. I ask, you know, like, what is her home life like? And the girls usually know, and they're always like, Oh, yeah, the mom criticizes her all the time, or dad's never around. And I'm like, That must be hard for her.

[00:14:28] Like, do you think she might be functioning out of pain? Like, she's being mean because she's in a lot of pain? And they're always like, oh my gosh, yeah, you're right. Like, I feel bad for her. And I activate compassion, right? And empathy. In a way, that's where, again, we're underestimating. These girls, what I have seen historically, the narrative is, right, when a mean girl situation happens, that mom is like, well, that girl, da da da!

[00:14:49] You know, you like, You in insult and judge the mean girl back, right? You lower down to her, her frequency of that and that it doesn't work. It just [00:15:00] continues the cycle of you trying to make yourself better than somebody else. And instead, we could have way more compassion for just our humanity and our coping mechanisms that we do to try to protect ourselves because we don't feel good.

[00:15:13] And that's what. Is really cool. And then the girls also, Gen Z, love psychology and mental health. So when you approach it from this, this angle, they're really into understanding the mechanisms behind it all. It's funny because, you know, I, like I said, I used to be a teacher. My husband is still an elementary school teacher and we both used positive discipline methods from Jane Nelson in our classrooms.

[00:15:37] And one of the things that is, Fascinating about her work is that she has this whole mistaken goals chart, which is like, if fundamentally somebody will be acting out if they are needing attention, if they feel like they're not measuring up revenge. Right. And so we, that's, we talk about [00:16:00] that stuff in our home.

[00:16:02] And so like our daughter, when she was little, she would be acting out and we're like, do you need attention? And she was like, yes, I do. I was like, well, okay. But when she had a mean girl situation at school, I was like, well, why do you think she acts like that? And she goes, Oh my God, does she need attention?

[00:16:19] I was like, I don't know. I'm not there, but I said, but maybe she would be less annoying if she got positive attention instead of negative attention. And she's like, Oh, okay. And I was like, so could, could you give positive? It's like, what if, what if you did an experiment to see if you could head off the behavior that you find annoying that everyone ends up fighting about?

[00:16:44] And it was really helpful. And she's like, it turned out again, like, Her folks are having a problem. You know, a grandparent is ill and and she's like she was way less annoying and I was like and part of it is because you're looking at rather than what's wrong [00:17:00] with you. What happened? Why are you acting like this?

[00:17:03] Yeah, totally. And also, it's just teaching our girls and all kids really that something outside of them doesn't determine their worth. And so, just the other day, my nine year old niece like, wasn't invited to the birthday party, right? Like, that was her first big moment. And she was just And I had this big talk with her, like it was sweet, she like called me to talk it out.

[00:17:26] And I was like, why does that girl get to decide your worth and value in the world? You're giving her so much power. And it was, I didn't make it about like, You know, the girl, it was more about her, my niece's choice inside of her of like, hey, you get to decide what type of friend you are, what your worth is, and she doesn't, what, what makes her get to be like the queen out there being like, you're bad, you're good, you know, and it was like, she's the barometer outside of herself and, and she, my niece really understood it and was like, by the end, she was like, I decide my worth, [00:18:00] you know, and I was like, yeah, Yeah, right.

[00:18:03] And also she could probably also go, well, maybe her mom said she could only have six people. But it's all of these things where you're like, yeah, it could be that she hates you, but let's be real. There's other stories that we can tell about a situation. Let's explore them. Let's explore the stories that we're telling about how you're a garbage person.

[00:18:24] Cause you didn't get invited to something. It's like, Maybe has nothing to do with you at all. Right. That's what we, we unwrapped as well. We unpacked that. And you just said the perfect language I use all the time is like, what story are we telling about this inside of our head? You know, so often, I mean, not even just that situation, but so often someone's telling me this whole drawn out.

[00:18:45] Thing. And I'm like, that sounds like a your story. That sounds like a you thing. Like, have you asked them? You know, it sounds like you're making an assumption and, and same with like a parent to a teenager dynamic and so on. It's like, have you just asked them? Like my [00:19:00] biggest response, gosh, I get, you know, all the Q and A's, the parents asking me 8 million questions and almost 90 percent of the time I go, have you asked her?

[00:19:08] And they're always like, what? But I'm like, well, what are her thoughts on it? And they're like And it's so amazing how no one's even asked the girl yet. They feel like as a parent, they have to go and completely be the authority and know everything about it. And they're, with teenage girls, there's a co creation that happens.

[00:19:24] Like, they are a part, the more you involve her in the solutions, the more you involve her brain in the process, the more there's gonna be mutual respect, the more she's gonna develop her own sense of self trust, and start really trusting her own thoughts, and That's what confidence is. Everyone's always like, how can we make the girls more confident?

[00:19:44] Well, we're like by doing, by, by, by letting them do right. It's like, that's how confidence is built is like trying stuff, getting it partially right. Knowing that failure is part of the. Part of this part of the [00:20:00] learning, revising, doing it again. And it's funny because again, back to the positive discipline, because there's a big overlap in the, in the coach approach, positive discipline, you have weekly meetings.

[00:20:11] So we do them as a family at home as part of my fair play work. We do, we did them in our classroom. And the idea is a, we start with compliments. We acknowledge the things that people are doing well already. By the way, it's called priming the pump, right? And then we go, Hey, what's not working? And it's not a personal thing.

[00:20:30] This problem is not inside a person. This problem is out there. And then we, all the humans are like, how can we as a team solve that problem? Yes. I mean, don't personalize it. And the power of compliments. I have an entire chapter named compliments because this idea of You know, well, first of all, so when I do empowerment workshops with girls, I have a list of rules or I call them agreements.

[00:20:57] And one of them on there is if someone [00:21:00] compliments you, you say, thank you. And it is this radical concept, right? Like women historically like, oh, this old thing. Oh, I don't know. Oh, I'm trying. Oh my gosh, the minute you start becoming sensitive to that, when you compliment a woman and how she does not receive it, and I have been often just being like, hey, no, I actually would love, it would make me happy as the giver of this compliment for you to just take a beat and feel good about it.

[00:21:26] And they're always like, and it's so uncomfortable. Right, okay, so weird story. In 1987, I was in high school, got a compliment from a boy. I tried to bat it back and he looked at me and he goes, I think what you're trying to say is thank you. I'm giving you a present and then you put your hands out and you receive the present and you just say the words.

[00:21:49] Thank you. And I was like, that's it. That's, that's what's expected in this interaction. He was like, yes, let's try it again. And he said it and I said, thank you. And he's like, you're welcome. He's like, stop trying to give me my [00:22:00] present back. You don't even know what it is yet. I was like, oh my God, it's in these interactions that you're like, wow, what other good things am I smacking out of my life?

[00:22:11] Yeah, well, and then, you know, there's so many things. There's the girls and I told me over and over again, just so much messaging about how girls need to be humble and polite and, you know, put other people's needs before their own. And it really just ingrained in us and it makes us small in like where the girls, you know, quotes in there of a girl wanting to raise her hand and her honors chem class, but she's scared to because like, you know, The, you know, she feels like she's smarter than the boys, but she doesn't want to show them that she might know the answer.

[00:22:41] You know, like there's this whole other narrative playing out that she might make the boys feel insecure, bad, because she knows the answer. I mean, it's wild. It's still happening, but it's really real. Like the gender double standards, I'm certainly in STEM classes, STEM honors classes for girls of color of different races, they've told me over and [00:23:00] over again, how much they have to advocate for themselves to even be in those classes or consider them, whereas boys are just like.

[00:23:07] thrown into them. No big deal. And this, this is still happening today because we just think of this like we don't let girls really own their brilliance and accomplishments in a big way in the same way that we do with boys. Can I tell you a funny story? This is true. Happened last year. My daughter is at what?

[00:23:25] A STEM school. She's what? Not white. She's what? Neurodivergent. She's what? Gives zero fucks. about her classmates deciding what she knows and doesn't know. Because I mean, that is the gift of being neurodivergent. You're just like, you need to shut it. Dude, who doesn't know what he's talking about. During one of the parent teacher interactions I had with one of her teachers, he said, God, she's so argumentative and she's almost always right.

[00:23:54] And I was like, I would like you to let those words that you just said out [00:24:00] loud, Mr. Science teacher. You're talking about a 12 year old girl who's not eating a shit sandwich and you're, she's not deferring to the boys who are incorrect and that's your problem with her? And he's using the word argumentative, a just like negative connotation.

[00:24:20] In science. In a science class and I was like, where do you know the word irony, sir, like, come on now. She's almost always right. Yes, she is. And she'd like everything, like, oh my god. What a leader in this classroom. I love how fearless she is for making her voice be heard, and I love how she owns that she knows the answers.

[00:24:47] Like, there's so many positive angles that you could build up inside of her. Instead, it's a judgment and a criticism on her that she needs to be smaller, potentially. Because she needs to make room for the boys that don't know the answers. [00:25:00] Like, what? Exactly, and I was like, Okay, well, we're going to talk offline about this in like an adult way for you to look at this issue because I'm going to write these words out for you to see the order that they're in that they don't make sense, like you're sending the wrong message.

[00:25:18] So anyway, if anyone's wondering if this is still relevant content in 2024. It is. And I will say, because of my background. As being a former teenage girl and being underestimated, I was like, Oh yeah, I'll be fighting to the mat about this thing because it's ridiculous in 2024. We're still having this conversation.

[00:25:44] I know it breaks my heart. I do too. I get, I have to hold a lot of space for just my own. Frustration and anger because and then, you know, funnel that into advocacy work, right? Like because I'm actually a really positive person. I'm [00:26:00] not here to complain about men and boys. Like I actually do a lot of work on a nonprofit front of also caring for men and boys.

[00:26:06] It's not about good bad. It's about the system that we've lived under that has. That's what I want to bring attention to, like these patterns that no longer, they don't serve us. And for some reason we're still subscribing to them. Okay, so the reason I wanted to interview you is because I'm a fair play facilitator.

[00:26:28] And so I do this work in people's homes. And, and sure, I definitely want to change family to family. I want people to be more comfortable in their homes. I want them to have equity. I want everyone to have basically what everyone needs to be met inside. I Each home for sure. But boy, do I really want to dismantle systems and create good public policy that benefit all of us.

[00:26:51] That's really why I was put on this earth. And the reason that I do self care work is because it's really hard to advocate for things when [00:27:00] you're exhausted. Oh gosh, you're nailing it on the head. I mean certainly this last month, right? I, no one's been able, I feel like women haven't been able to process what's happened in our United States of America and just because they're tired, they're too tired, they can't even feel the emotions of like, What's happening in, in the shifts that are happening and so I, I so agree with you.

[00:27:23] It's such a tool of the patriarchy basically is to exhaust women. Right. And, and when I use that word patriarchy, I know a lot of people aren't familiar with it. In all fairness, I loved what like Barbie did in terms of just making it really simple. I just heard an example the other day that really caught my attention.

[00:27:41] That's a very fair play frame on it that, you know, on the weekends when there's kids birthday parties and there's active sports, sports things to drive them to activities, drive them to somehow men get to just. Like, there's a sports game on the TV. There's a game on the TV. And they get to abdicate from any of those responsibilities [00:28:00] because there's a game on the TV.

[00:28:01] And what is their equivalent for a woman who's like, You know what? I'm not going to do any child care responsibilities this weekend because there's something on TV that I have to watch. Like, women don't get to enjoy that. And by the way, that sounds wonderful. Like, the men, I'm sure they're having a blast with their buddies.

[00:28:20] Like, great. Happy for you. And, like, why is this, why is this culturally okay? Why is this no one is questioning? Why isn't the man, you know, like, it's so interesting. It's fascinating. And it's funny being, so I have been, my husband and I have been together for 29 years, which I find amazing. Insane. That's that's like a whole adult.

[00:28:47] And, you know, we were together for 15 years before we became parents through adoption. And after we became parents, I said to him, I don't know any more about raising [00:29:00] children and doing them. the daily grind of children's stuff than you do. So you're going to have to be a real active participant in this situation because this is a group project right here.

[00:29:12] So I'm going to not micromanage you as much as I can because as it's my natural tendency to micromanage you when you're doing it wrong. But what I decided early on was he is a grown man. He can keep this kid alive while I do something fun. Right. And what we, she's almost 14 and we are still minute to minute.

[00:29:32] Like he just got back from a three day trip by himself for his birthday to a city we used to live in. And he played with his friends all weekend while I did childcare for a grumpy, almost 14 year old, whatever. But you know what? I'm not going to feel bad when I go to a conference across the country. You know, I'm gonna go to, you know, Mom 2 in Orlando and I'm gonna pack a suitcase and I'm gonna get on an airplane and I'm gonna eat [00:30:00] nice meals with my friends and stay at a really nice hotel and learn stuff and I, I'm not gonna tell him, I don't have to tell him where she needs to be picked up, what she needs to eat, I don't have to tell him anything because we've set up our relationship that we I have my life, he has his life, and we have our life.

[00:30:22] But we're both, we're autonomous together. Does that make sense? Oh, 100 percent of course. And, and, but it kind of comes back to the theme of your podcast of self care. And, you know, a lot of people like to just kind of, Oh, whatever self care you're going to get a massage and your nails done or something.

[00:30:37] It's so much bigger than that. It's a sense of equality of you get equal amount of care invested in things that light you up and build you up and make you feel good. And it is quite Practically a time and energy that is energy and resources, money, money, right? It's so funny because as a fair play facilitator, like there's [00:31:00] actual research like recently, he was Danielle Friedman did a thing in the New York times about gender.

[00:31:06] It was exactly that thing. It was gendered exercise like men get time, money, and abdicated from home responsibilities. If you want to know when a dude is going to take up a time intensive hobby, it is after you have a child. Suddenly they're going to be fly fishing and triathlon training and 18 holes of golf twice.

[00:31:34] All of that. But that's only after you have a kid. Right? Yeah. And again, it's, it's figuring out what the equivalent of that is for the moms, the mom part of this and, and in fair play, we call it unicorn space because it seems mythical, like who can actually do that. And it's so funny, Chelsea, because I'm like, I, one of my clients recently, it was literally this week.

[00:31:59] She's [00:32:00] a lawyer. She got two kids. She's married. She's doing elder care. Like she's the president, she's the president of all the, The kid organization, all these things. She came to our meeting and she said, I did four hours of unicorn space yesterday. My kids didn't even interrupt me. I did this thing and I was like, Well, thanks for the testimonial.

[00:32:20] She's like, it's the best day of my life. I was like, so mid December, you just dropped everything and did a craft for yourself? She's like, I actually quilted an entire thing for my sister for I don't know. Christmas and I couldn't be happier. And I was like, but you're the president of this thing. And you're the, and she's like, I know I decided not, I, I put myself first so I could feel like myself.

[00:32:42] Yeah. Well, and there's so many colors to this that really intersects with my work too, because you know, my first chapter is feelings also just having, which Americans are not fluent in. Yes, exactly. Not only doing something that lights you up and passionate hobby or whatever it might be. Also just having time [00:33:00] and space to process your feelings and sit with them.

[00:33:04] And that's something I feel like women don't have enough time. We power through, we void because we have to, we have to hold up the whole family and make sure everyone's okay. So there's that aspect. Another aspect I see in the teenage years where this starts young, right? Is that boys have a lot more space and room to do just activities for whatever, but also make mistakes and be messy about it.

[00:33:28] Girls, they need to achieve if they're going to make it in this world, because that's how we protect them, right? So their hobbies, if you will, are still pretty achievement focused, whether it's getting good grades or doing the volunteering to have a good college application. Like they're way It's like they're little executives.

[00:33:46] Oh my gosh, yeah. They're running empires. I mean, they're all starting non profits. The things the girls are doing right now are out of this world. And by no means do they feel like they could make a mistake. You know, if they get a B on a test, they're devastated. Meanwhile, [00:34:00] boys are like, whatever. You know, like they don't take it, they don't absorb it into their identity, their self worth.

[00:34:06] And I, again, would love the girls to enjoy that luxury. I'm happy that the boys are experiencing it that way. They, they're getting the luxury to experience it that way. The same way they're getting the luxury to watch the football game with their buddies. Wonderful. I just want the same luxury for the girls and women.

[00:34:23] And how do we create space for that? Yeah. And it's funny because the longer we talk, the more I'm like,

[00:34:31] I essentially am raising my daughter like a boy. Oh yeah, yeah, I see that. Part of it is because I, you know, I grew up in the 70s and I had this t shirt, like, anything boys can do, girls can do better. Like as, you know, it was a thing. And I always thought it was unfair that boys had, you know, really invisible advantages and had all the, I was like, I would like some of that.

[00:34:56] Also, I'm the only girl in my family. So I was like, wait, why can't I do that? Oh, you're a girl. [00:35:00] No, that, that is irrelevant. What, what you just said irrelevant. Well, I feel like I was raised as a boy, like in a big, big way. I've said that many times before. And my dad is a big, Person in my book that is amazing.

[00:35:11] I have an incredible dad and I think people dads when you ask who the book is for I found dads really have loved the book because they can feel that healthy masculinity infused in it what that actually looks like but I was raised as a boy in a lot of ways in that I wanted to play baseball when I was in fourth grade and there was no girls baseball team, right?

[00:35:29] There was only a boys baseball team and my dad Advocated to the coach to get me on the team, right? like You There's something to be said about having a dad who's willing to advocate in those male spaces for his daughter.

[00:35:40] Girl, this is why I was like, I need to make her my friend. Okay. Tell me. Okay. So are you, are you, tell us more about, so you have this book. What else are you doing in the world here? And then we're going to get to like how your own care allows you to show up the way [00:36:00] that you do, because this is, I mean, I don't know if you know this, but this is life changing.

[00:36:03] This book, these, you're changing culture, you're changing families, just by allowing people to change the narrative like we do. I am constantly saying, Oh, what if somebody comes at me with a crappy cultural narrative that I'm like, well, that doesn't feel good. So I'm constantly saying I don't subscribe to that channel.

[00:36:23] No, thank you. I do not receive that. So other than changing the world with this book, what do you do? I do speaking engagements in a big way and conduct workshops. And you know, it could be empowerment workshops for girls and teenagers. I also do workshops for parents and speaking engagements, even for like a corporate space on the lessons I've learned for teenage from teenage girls can be used.

[00:36:49] Because basically it's the art form of helping someone feel seen and heard and understood and valued and celebrated. And those are the communication tools that I teach in this book that can be applied to [00:37:00] everyone. And just the main premise of the number one thing teenage girls always told me is how they feel judged.

[00:37:06] And how us as a society, if we actually stopped judging, Which is, again, these kind of stories we just tell in our heads about what should be. And instead, lived in what is, and embraced people with love for exactly who they are. It, it could change all of culture and society, right? Which is what I'm all about, right?

[00:37:25] Right, and also, it creates that sense of curiosity and creativity and innovation. Like, cause all of that relates to Brene Brown's work. Exactly. Yeah, a lot of my work relates to that. Like, we can't Cause shame is an entire chapter Yes! Of how dismantling shame and self doubt is such the key of, of everything.

[00:37:47] I mean, heck, the, I talk in the self doubt chapter about the mean voice inside our head, right? The inner critic. And so when I do workshops with teenage girls and I help them become aware of the inner critic inside their brain. Oh my gosh, it's [00:38:00] so exciting because they're all like, wait, everyone has this voice inside their head.

[00:38:04] And if I, at 13 years old, had become aware of the inner critic and detached from it and realized how to attach to my authentic voice, oh my gosh, I would have, I, the, the things, the life I could have lived, right? I have sadness around that. Do you have, I have, there's grief in there for me. Yeah, I mean, like, oh, breaking.

[00:38:25] I try to look at it as like, I'm breaking the cycle now and giving the gift to girls that I didn't have. So there's so much beauty in that because you almost don't know how to help people unless you've been wounded by it yourself. It makes you a better teacher. But so that's how I get, how I've worked through the grief, but you're not wrong.

[00:38:41] Like, I have a lot of grief just collectively for women and girls. And so, Because again, just on this press tour, the things I'm coming up against, the questions I'm asked, I'm like, wait, are we still there? Like, I just, I think I didn't truly understand the full oppressive nature, and I'm gonna even [00:39:00] use, use that word and it's sneaky oppression.

[00:39:03] Sometimes. Sometimes it's sneaky, sometimes it's overt. Depending on where you are. No, of course there's overt. But I think I'm really drawn into, where I, my work lives, actually is in that sneakier space. And and like how I can make changes. And I, so now in terms, I, I'm really high energy and I really give a lot, right?

[00:39:27] And, and I love this and I give my entire soul to every podcast I'm on, to everything I do because it's just like my life's work, right? But energy, right? Self care. How do I source that? People ask that all the time. And I will say, I've, I've learned, you know, I'm really aware of when I'm sourcing energy from outside, like getting external validation, like that is not a true fueling source.

[00:39:54] And it makes you dependent on it. It's like an addict, right? And I have had to, you know, really [00:40:00] understand how I source energy. Source my energy and love from within and you know, whoever might have a divine context for that. Great. And I have to spend a lot of time making, I literally schedule it on my calendar.

[00:40:16] Like whether it's time in solitude, time journaling, time with a really, really good friend where I need to talk out things like something that sources me in having enough available energy to show up for people. Thank you for bringing that up because again, a lot of people come up, there's this commoditization, what that word's very hard for me to say, of self care that you can buy it at Target and that it's in, or Neiman Marcus, and that there's some value range.

[00:40:43] And I'm like, or what if we change the channel on how we talk to ourself? Yes. Oh, I have one. What if we slept, what if we slept at night? You're like, that's hard. I know me too. I struggle with sleep, but it's my number one priority. I treat myself like a [00:41:00] toddler every night and sometimes sleep happens and sometimes it doesn't, but I'll notice on the days that it doesn't.

[00:41:06] Wow. My mental health is awful. Right. And, but, but it's really, it's an inside job. Yes, it's all an inside job. Everything is. I yeah, because everyone always says, aren't you so drained when I go to all these, do all these events and so on? And I'm not, I'm like lit up, right? Because it's this really beautiful flow of energy where I'm kind of like sourcing it and giving it, it's coming back and like, but I'm not dependent on it.

[00:41:33] I'm not like, Draining myself to people like instead I can see the flow and that's actually where receiving compliments is an important, important part of closing that loop because if you're just outputting constantly and you're not actually listening to the impact you're having or the good ways that it's landing or the thank yous that you're receiving.

[00:41:51] That energy never comes back to you to that. And I don't mean it in an external validation. I just mean actually closing the loop, the flowing loop of, of [00:42:00] good energy. Well, yeah, I mean, woo woo. But like that's no, but it's one of, one of my practices every single day. As I read it to doll list, it's like, what did I, what were three good things that I made happen today, personally, professionally, whatever.

[00:42:15] And that's because A, Greta, quite mean. She's very critical up in this bitch. Wait, did you name your inner critic Greta? Yes. I mean, I have two. I have two. Blanche, she's on safety patrol, and Greta is being just critical of everything and everyone. That's a tool that I teach people. Like, give it a funny name also.

[00:42:38] Like, you're like, oh, it's Greta being Greta. Exactly. But also, it's just like capturing like, oh. Because people also have this thing, this idea like, oh you're a change maker, you're a thought leader, so therefore, every single day you're making these giant leaps, you're like, oh my god, wouldn't that be great, although I think it might be exhausting, but [00:43:00] capturing the little, tiny, tiny, moments, person to person where you're like, wow, I made a difference in that person's life.

[00:43:08] And maybe that person will make a person in that person's life. It's really just like, right. It's a ripple effect. It's, it's the connectivity between all of us because one person can't change culture. We change culture one person at a time and we all benefit. Okay. Like I prefer in every encounter that I have, am I in alignment?

[00:43:29] Do I show up as like, the self that I love and respect and who I am and my own integrity and, and that takes a lot of self awareness and time to reflect and make sure I am in alignment before I show up in these spaces. Okay, how did you get there? Because It's funny because a lot of people are like, oh, I'd like some of that.

[00:43:49] Yes. Did you go to some, is there a store that you can get? Where did that come from? Okay, and it takes work. I have done a lot of healing, [00:44:00] self healing work. So those wounds we were talking about, those teenage wounds like, I have, I address them actively. I'm currently addressing one. Like, I'm dealing with some mother wound stuff right now.

[00:44:10] And I'm in the trenches of it, and I'm not through it yet, and I can admit that. Like, we have to understand the time and space you need to really process and grieve certain things in your life happening. I, I believe actually there, the, there's a real benefit in rock bottoms in whatever capacity a rock bottom might be for you.

[00:44:26] I know that term is used in the addiction world, which is helpful, but also just in any type of your, your life, when you hit a place where you're just at your breaking point and you're just like, I cannot go on. I have learned people don't make active changes in their life without a lot of pain, unfortunately.

[00:44:43] And it's a really unfortunate. It's a, it's a 3Ds, right? Diagnosis. Death divorce. It's like when you're, when you're at a pivotal moment where you're like, well, I guess I'm getting a new life. What else can I dig up? You're like, I already feel terrible. It's the, I already feel terrible. What do I have [00:45:00] to lose?

[00:45:00] Let's do it. Let's make change. Yeah. So I actually, when I, I have a friend that says to me like, who's just a true mess and, and devastated and is just like, I think I'm at a rock bottom. I'm like, right. I felt like, oh my gosh, this is exciting. Congratulations. I was like, this is exciting because now you're ready to make different choices for yourself.

[00:45:23] Because you have the agency. No one's going to come and save you. Nothing's going to save you. There is no store to go to. You have, everything's from the inside. No one can be the boss of you. I had a, I had a mental health professional tell me once, even if you could, Even if you could, she, she made a, an analogy of agency being that you're, you're the captain of your own ship, right?

[00:45:48] And even if you were able to somehow get on someone else's ship like a pirate, you still can't, you still can't steer someone else's ship away from the rocks. [00:46:00] Like, we all have it within us. Yes. To, but, but that we can't wait for anyone else. And I was like, Kathy, you are making everyone very uncomfortable with your truth telling.

[00:46:13] You're going to need to knock that off. Such a truth teller and it totally makes people uncomfortable. And we could increase our bandwidth for discomfort because guess what? You're asking me how this is done? I increased my bandwidth for discomfort to sit in the mess, to feel my pain, to feel my feelings, and look at myself in reality, understand the choices I was making.

[00:46:35] Oh, taking responsibility and accountability for my part in creating the narrative, rather than being a victim to it, and reactive to it. Instead, having that, that choice. We all have a choice around what story we are telling at any given moment. And so that's been a huge part of this work. And it's, and it's been all parts of my life.

[00:46:57] I, you know, I have a therapist, I have, you know, like I have [00:47:00] lots of different ways. To support myself and resource myself in terms of mental health, emotional health, spiritual health. And I use them actively. And you know, prior, when maybe seven years ago, everyone was always like, Have you tried meditating?

[00:47:15] And I'd always be like real resistant and defensive, like something's wrong with me, right? Because I'm so energetic and I need to calm down and meditate. And it was a story I was telling about meditation, right? Because I chose to be defensive and resistant instead. Cut to me like hitting a rock bottom of my own sort and starting slowly but surely to start meditating in my own way, right?

[00:47:38] Imperfectly, maybe like three minutes a day, like nothing where I had to go zero to 10, right? And I am telling you, like after doing that for a few months, I was like, Oh no, like this, this was a good thing to do. And it has helped me a lot. I have to say that a lot where I'm like, You guys, the bad news, [00:48:00] eating vegetables makes you feel better.

[00:48:02] Worst news, whatever the question is, the answer is exercise. I, if I was, I was like, if I was writing a book and I could get that research that said the answer to all questions does not somehow fundamentally come back to exercise, I would write it and I would be, well, I would be a God because everybody would be so happy.

[00:48:23] But the answer to most of life's questions is move your body. I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Well, I would take that even more a step further and we've become very detached from our bodies. Like our bodies hold a lot of wisdom and we, by, by doing exercise, what happens is, is you connect back to your body and the messages it's telling you.

[00:48:48] And there's an energetic connectivity that helps you kind of align better, just know your authenticity better. Like. love yourself more that it has these other implications. Whereas when people hear exercise, they [00:49:00] think lose weight, look better, right? Like those are the two things they hear. And what if instead we started talking about how women need to be connected to their body, whatever size and shape it looked like, because it is a powerful entity on this planet.

[00:49:15] Absolutely. Okay. So was there a before you, cause I was a workaholic burnt out workaholic until I was in my late thirties. That's why I do self care, Chelsea, because you have to teach what you need to learn. I had a doctor say, You're going to drop dead in your classroom if you don't take care of your stress and I was like, I just came here for you to help me clear up my acne.

[00:49:40] So if you could stop telling me that my mortality is being shortened by my inability to process my life, that would be great. So I have a very distinct before and after. Did you have a before? I had a couple of them. Okay. It's been an evolution. Yeah, me too. And. And [00:50:00] it's really cool because like once you get to one place and the next layers peel off and the next place, I'm really passionate about self growth now because I've gotten to the other side of enough of these where I'm like, oh my gosh, the discomfort pays off.

[00:50:13] Like, it's worth it. Weren't you like, shut up, I didn't know she was in there, she's awesome, you guys! Yeah, and it's interesting because as I try to get more people to kind of come over and be like, Dude, yeah, let's sit in the mess together, I promise. Like, it's wild to see the resistance because people really love what the devil they know, right?

[00:50:30] Like, to stay safe. The brain wants to stay safe by doing the exact same thing over and over and over, even if it doesn't serve them. That's bland. Right. She doesn't, my inner critic, my safe, my safety patrol captain doesn't want me to cross the street, let alone send out a speaker pitch and get on a stage with a microphone in front of 500 people.

[00:50:50] She's like, ma'am, why would you do that? Yes, exactly. You could die. You could die from embarrassment. And it's super uncomfortable. You need to stay inside. Yeah. And now I've [00:51:00] gotten to the other side of these that I'm like, dude, everyone join me. I promise the pain is worth it. And so in terms of like before me, there's a couple turning points.

[00:51:10] Like I had a ton of, it's a much longer story, but like pain with my body. And I ended up having to get a major surgery and that was such a rock bottom of your diagnosis. Yes. Reconnecting with my body. I, I talk about it in the book, how I'm in Al Anon, which is the 12 step program for anyone who has a friend or loved one who suffers from addiction.

[00:51:31] And that really helped me with things like people pleasing and perfectionism and overachieving and just a control. Basically, it's an issue with control that you have. And I had to reckon with that in a huge, huge way. I, i, I certainly was the like straight A, I'm a recovering perfectionist, right?

[00:51:51] Like in terms of I thought if I wasn't being perfect then I was terrible. And the truth is perfection doesn't exist. So I [00:52:00] was asking something of myself that's impossible. And that's what I find we're doing to teenage girls too. We're asking something of them that's impossible. Not, not everyone's going to like you.

[00:52:09] You're never going to be perfect because it does not exist. And I needed to find that. fail a lot. I needed to mess up a lot. I needed to work really hard and seemingly do everything right and still not get what I want. And I needed to know what that looked like and instead, like, trust and surrender to the flow of life.

[00:52:32] I mean, everything changed I mean, honestly, just even a few years ago when I started writing this book, that was like a big shift of just trusting the flow of my life rather than trying to control it. Thank you. I mean, And you, that wasn't a prepared question, everyone. That was just like a, I'm curious because I, I feel like I've had so many of those evolutionary points as well.

[00:52:56] And then digging in and being like, Oh man, you think the work is [00:53:00] going to kill you. And that's why you don't want to start, but really not evolving is what's going to kill your spirit. Yeah. Yes, because it is, it is work. Don't get me wrong. It is work, but the not evolving will kill you more. That's right.

[00:53:16] Also, also not evolving. That's work too. That, that's the work. It's like choose your work, choose your hard. It's all going to be hard. Yeah, but at least some hard, some hard work, you can feel the benefits at the end. Sorry to interrupt. Go ahead. Well, the not evolving is a real clinging to also just an. old version of who you are it's actually a detachment from what I believe is your authentic self.

[00:53:43] The more you evolve, the more you just get in tune with who you are authentically in your soul. And that is so wonderful. It's liberation. It's, it's all these beautiful feelings, empowerment and It's so fascinating how devoted we are to a [00:54:00] version of ourselves, because that's what we know, and oftentimes it's because people have told us that's who we are.

[00:54:06] We need to be that person to other people. It's like who our parents think we are. You know, I've heard this before. I haven't experienced it. Yeah, but that you don't really know yourself until your parents die. I mean, that's a really intense thing to say, but we have a certain attachment of our identity to our parents perception of us until they die.

[00:54:26] And, and there's a certain degree, I mean, obviously there's deep grief and so many feelings around that. Yeah. But I question, again I haven't experienced it yet, but I question it. I have, and I will say, that's one of the, right, death is one of them. Is one of the, because in that moment when your parent dies, even if you have a complicated relationship, even if you are estranged from them, it's like the, the, the order.

[00:54:55] The social order of your life changes is a forced upon you [00:55:00] change because the rank and where you are in this, the hierarchy or whatever the structure of your family changes, and it does feel like there's like a cracking of marble and you're like what's going to happen here.

[00:55:15] I will just say. I became much more fearless after my mom died. That's exactly what I'm talking about. Yeah. I've seen it was painful and it was vulnerable and it was, I mean, it was awful. And also, it was like, okay, well, cause in your, in the back of your mind, you're like, oh, well, the worst happened. Yeah.

[00:55:40] The person who's loved me the longest is gone. Like, I think these are things we need to talk about that space, that growth space. That's what it was. And you're right. Death is a huge instigator for that. Yeah. So I grew up in the seventies and eighties. What about you? When were you a teenager? I was a teenager.

[00:55:59] Well, [00:56:00] I guess I was a teenager in the nineties. Okay. He's in early 2000s. Okay. So that means you're a millennial, correct? I'm actually an exennial. Like, by the way, I also look really young. So it really confuses people. Same. So I was born in 70. So I'm going to be 55 in March. What about you? I I'm 41. And I am at that five year period from like 80 to 85, where I spent half my life analog computers weren't a big part of my and then half my growth, my developmental years.

[00:56:29] with computers being a big part of my life. So I really know both worlds and I often find myself bridging. I'm a bridge in general, whether I'm a bridge between a parent and a teenager, I just always find myself bridging worlds. That's interesting too, because that there is, that is a very big, I love that group of people because the generations are different.

[00:56:50] And I think you're the first person that's referred to yourself as an X ennial, usually people say a geriatric [00:57:00] millennial or baby gen X er. Oh, it's just funny how people identify. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so what did you learn about self care growing up? And I know that the lexicon with those words wasn't real, that, That wasn't a thing.

[00:57:14] Well, and can we talk about, too, just the word anxiety? Because everyone is like, Oh my gosh, the kids are so much more anxious. You know what? I was anxious, but I didn't know that word, right? Like, I actually really wonder if the, you know, Gen Z knows psychology words like nobody's business and mental health words.

[00:57:30] Like, maybe they just have the language to name it. What a crazy concept. I know. I was like, Anxiety. My face was next to the word of the dictionary. Totally. I don't remember once as a teenager being like, I have anxiety. And like, that wasn't a thing that was said, but I definitely did. And so, in terms of self care growing up, I think, Thankfully, you know, the good thing my parents did was that I had a lot of [00:58:00] independence and trust.

[00:58:01] They really trust me. I was a really responsible kid. So I had a lot of freedom to just create a dynamic future and life for myself. Like, I had no limits on me placed. Like, I, in a way, my parents didn't Right, like, so that is a way that I see the difference and I can help teach it. And it's kind of that, like, being raised by a, like, like a boy type of mentality.

[00:58:24] But I, But what I didn't have for self care was an understanding that if I wasn't perfect, like the space of messiness, emotional messiness, there wasn't a lot, there was no space really for my emotional feelings. sharing them. And I will say though, just to add some beauty to, to growth. Recently, just, just a few weeks ago, I was in Colorado where I'm from and my, I was going through this really hard thing I kind of alluded to earlier.

[00:58:55] And I was with my dad in the car and I actually, I [00:59:00] started crying about it. I was so upset about what's going on. And my dad was just like, oh my gosh, that is hard, Chelsea. I'm so sorry, you're right. I understand why you feel that way. And he, like, showed up emotionally, held space, which is what I talk about in my first chapter of my book, Holding Space for Emotions, something my dad was not capable of when I was growing up, right?

[00:59:22] But he has since read my book. He has since oftentimes told me, like, yeah, Chelsea, while I've been reading this book, you know, he's always kind of lighthearted about it. But I mean, that went on for about a half hour. Him just holding space for my emotions, not judging them, validating them, being there for me, and it was so profoundly healing.

[00:59:41] Few things. What's your dad's name? Robin. Okay. Love, big love to Robin. That is super awesome. And then second, do you, do you know that children's book going on a bear hunt? I don't know. Okay. Okay. Well it is, it's so good. And it has hand motions and repetitive [01:00:00] texts and it's, it is a preschool hit, but the idea is this family's going on a bear hunt and they run into obstacles.

[01:00:06] And the refrain is basically you can't. You can't skip over the hard parts. You have to go through it. Yeah. Yeah. And, and that's it, because when you were telling that story, all I could think was, Oh, your dad didn't try to talk you out of your feelings, he just held space for them, and then you were over them.

[01:00:28] Yeah, you didn't, so that's my big feelings chapter, is not trying to fix them, not trying to spin positivity, not trying to solve them And then that holding space is how we move through it. That's exactly what all the research shows is actually just naming your feeling. It usually lasts around 90 seconds to pass through your body.

[01:00:47] But instead what we do is we shove it deep down inside of us. And, and until it explodes later in a midlife crisis. And it's funny, a couple of years ago, my. My little baby was doing [01:01:00] some baking with her grandparents and she got hot caramel under a fingernail and she lost her mind. And her grandparents were like, you're okay, you're okay, you're okay.

[01:01:09] And as I'm running from the other room to be like, don't say, I see my kid walk up to the refrigerator and smack her head on the refrigerator and she turns and she looks at them and she's like, I'm clearly not okay. Oh my God. I love that so much. And I came up to her and I go, Oh, that must really hurt.

[01:01:32] And I was like, does your head hurt? She's like, no, I'm fine. It hurts under my nail. And I was like, what? It was funny that I just responded to your child smacking her head on a refrigerator saying, Oh, that's so good. What I meant is like by her announcing, I'm not okay. That is a reclamation. Like that is not something that's happening.

[01:01:50] What happens is girls and women are like, it's fine. It's fine. It's fine. It's fine. You know, and they're not That's called gaslighting. Yeah. Instead of like She'd feel crazy. I'm actually not [01:02:00] okay. Can we just spend a beat? Acknowledging that Yes. And I said, okay, I said, that looks like it really hurts. And she goes, it does.

[01:02:08] And I said, what do you want to do? And she goes, I want you to fix my finger and I want to go home. I said, okay. And I said, I fixed your finger. And I said, we're, we got to go. And when I got home, I just, I called him and I said, Hey, you look, you have to acknowledge. the reality of her existence. If she says she's not okay, or if you think she's not okay, just check with her.

[01:02:35] But she was screaming. That means she's not okay. She thinks you're nuts because you couldn't see that she wasn't okay. And good for her. Like so many girls can't even put that into words. Instead they just immediately squash it down and I know don't want to make a trouble. Don't want to be a bother. That was me.

[01:02:52] I don't want to be too much. I don't want to be too much. Right. Okay. Where's your self care going? Well, Currently. And what do [01:03:00] you think could use more attention? It's going well in that I consciously schedule time for it on my calendar. And it doesn't happen unless I do that. And that's really interesting to me.

[01:03:16] And But it's not real if it's on the schedule. It's out there. But you keep thinking you're going to do it, and then you don't. Nope. And mine, mine looks not necessarily like the massage thing, you know, that whole vibe I was saying earlier. Mine is actually time for feelings, time to literally just feel my feelings.

[01:03:35] And second, the second part where maybe it's not going well, I'm so efficient and I like to do things fast. I'm a quick learner that I have a hard time absorbing that it takes a while, like specifically with feelings and hard things and grief. The emotion of grief takes mine. I'm laughing because I'm assuming that you're looking at [01:04:00] yourself and your feelings being like, Are you, are you good?

[01:04:02] Are you done? Can we move on yet? Yeah. Where, where are we on a scale of one to 10? Cause I need to schedule something else. I have things to do. This isn't that fun. Should I, do I need to schedule another session? Yeah. Okay. How long do you need? Oh my gosh. I might be familiar with that and I need to have more ease with myself and compassion and yeah.

[01:04:30] You know, what's helped me is, like, understanding, learning more just nature of humanity and how I, you know, like, we need periods of rest. Like, I've had a big year and I have gone, go, go, go, go, go. And I have needed the month of December to rest and that is really uncomfortable for me because I'm like, I, I, I feel like, oh, am I not capitalizing on everything going on, da, da, da, da, you know, and so on.

[01:04:54] And yeah. But you said the word. Because what's that of? That is that constant [01:05:00] need to produce, even when Everything in nature is going into dormancy is a result of capitalism. We've been sold this idea that unless we're a machine, we're worthless. And I'm like, I no longer subscribe to that channel. Yes.

[01:05:16] The productivity took a long time. Yeah, I found, I say this in my book, that literally the main identity parents want their kid to be is that they work hard, that they're productive, like, that matters most is productivity, and it is totally a culture of capitalism. Also, I don't see it in other cultures, you know, at the same level in my own, you know, in, in research around it.

[01:05:41] And that that would be profit motivated, right? The capitalist system is profit motivated, which means, again, there's like an external validation aspect. There's a real emphasis on money and status being the reward and the best thing you could have. And even when it's even [01:06:00] when it's at the cost of exploiting yourself and the people around you and so that's the system.

[01:06:06] You're right. That does not work. And in my power chapter, I very much shine a light on that. And how are. Our concepts of power have been very much grounded in domination, oppression, status, wealth, self interest, and how we have valued that, and how actually, girls, when I'm talking about, to them about these ideas of power, they almost don't even want a part in power because they're like, eh, that sounds awful, right?

[01:06:29] And instead, when I ask them what is like, what would the world look like if it was all women leaders, right? And it's not about a few. This is the truth or not. It's really just their perception of like, what would that be? And they talk about how the world would be more centered on care and empathy and generosity and community.

[01:06:46] And I'm like, this is awesome! This vision you have! Like, how can we create that? And I'm very passionate about that. I have literal chills right now. So I want to, I want to tell you something. [01:07:00] What? But my, the overarching feeling I have at this part of our interview where we're about to wrap this up and move into our quickfire actor studio style questions is that you live in a world of infinite possibilities of what could happen in the best possible way.

[01:07:29] You're absolutely infectious. I want to be your best friend because my God, what a great. It's a rare quality to find somebody who's like, you know, it'd be fun tearing it down, but really we're only doing that because we want to a level foundation for the awesomeness that we're building in the future. Do you want to come along?

[01:07:51] I'll be like, yeah, I want to sit at her table. I feel so seen and understood. Thank you. Like that is what I'm about in my [01:08:00] heart and soul. Thank you. It's so delightful to be on this on this conversational I'm in this conversation because so few people can get to that place. And I'm really glad to have connected with you.

[01:08:15] I do have to ask you, have you read the book, The Art of Possibility by the Zanders? No. Girl. Well, I guess what you should do during your month of rest is read that book because they have the same zest and effervescence as you. And I think it would be a great match. Anyway. Bye. Thank you for being here.

[01:08:40] Thank you. If people want to hire you at their company or their school district or who, who are the people that usually hire you? Let's get you some speaking work and workshop work. So it's, it could be certainly schools bring me in to talk to parents, to talk to teachers and to talk to kids. [01:09:00] I've done, I've come in and done all of those all at once.

[01:09:02] I like separately though, different engagements within a week. I, We'll do a lot of stuff with girls, whether it's in a camp or a non profits doing an event. I will speak in terms of girls empowerment, like, or lead a workshop. I've done one with Hello Sunshine in partnership with Invisalign. That we did a huge one with like 75 girls.

[01:09:23] It was so exciting, but like I've done other ones like that. And, and then in terms on a corporate level, I mean, I've spoken on Necker Island, Richard Branson's Island for like some of the lead you know, top leaders in the world on tech and AI. And it was about teenage girls still, which I love, but and they loved it.

[01:09:40] Richard loved it. You know, he posted about my book and sorry, I want you to wear a t shirt that says I spoke at Necker Island and every entrepreneur. Every entrepreneur will be like, I'm sorry, who are you? What did you do? What I know? I'm going back to, they asked me back to speak in April again. So congratulations.

[01:09:55] Thanks. And I, so I, I'm all [01:10:00] about tailoring, you know, the message to. The audience, what I think I offer is psychological safety. How do we create that in the workspace? How do we create that in your household and home? How do we create that in a school environment or psychological and emotional safety?

[01:10:15] Because then that's when you're not feeling judged. It's it's when you feel like you can be authentic and be yourself. And also that's where change happens. Change doesn't happen when you're under threat. Exactly. Exactly. Okay. So where can people find you if they're like, Girl, I have a speaking budget. I would like to hire you.

[01:10:33] I'd like to buy your book. Yes, so my website, ChelseaGooden. com, has all of that info, has all my press clips, like all the speaking reel and so on. And then and then follow me on Instagram at Chelsea Gooden. That's like, I, I tend to share, like, my, my life in a big way on there and I always love that.

[01:10:51] I love connecting with people. And then read the book. Go get the book. It's perfect for book clubs. I also have a book, a free book club guide on my website where it has like prompts for each [01:11:00] chapter and they're good. Like they're really good, but it's perfect for a mom's book club, a woman's book club.

[01:11:05] Like it's, I, it's cause the way the chapters are organized, even if you didn't do the reading that week, like you're going to still have something to say on the discussion. I have to say my favorite book club. I mean, I always read the book because I'm a dork and I read for work. So it's like, it's part of my job, but I do always preface my book covers with, you don't even have to read the book.

[01:11:25] I read it. I'll tell you the important parts. So thank you for just being like, yeah, you could just do the exercises and you'll get tons of benefits. Everyone, you have to read this book. If you were ever a teenage girl, if you know a teenage girl, if you might know a teenage girl at some point in your life, please read this book.

[01:11:46] It's, it's effervescent. It's hopeful. It's healing. It's also really easy to read, not gonna lie. Some non fiction you're [01:12:00] like, oh my god, duh, why does this feel like medicine? Doesn't feel like medicine, so thank you for that as well. Oh, good. I, I, I'm a writer, first and foremost. That, I mean, that means a lot to me.

[01:12:10] Do you know what I mean? Because, you know, sometimes you're like, oh man, the message in this book is amazing. No, it's funny, though. Like, mine's funny and playful, and yeah. Exactly. And again, it's hopeful. It's hopeful. Alright, we're doing these quick. Chelsea Gooden, what is your Enneagram? Oh, interesting. I'm super into personality tests, and Enneagram is one of the only ones that I have not felt like, Ah, it's me!

[01:12:32] Like, I can tell you all my other ones. I might be a three, which is interesting. I think I'm like a healed three, if you will. But I, it's not, it's never one that's really, truly landed for me. Love that. And for any of you who are like, I don't know what that is. I do have a 10 part series about Enneagram.

[01:12:52] Here it's episodes 40 to 50 and it gives you the why behind it. And plus the good, the bad, the ugly, and a self care recommendation for [01:13:00] each Enneagram type and helpful. Introvert, extrovert. Oh, extroverts, . I am one of the most extreme extroverts you'll ever meet. I, you know, if I take the Myers-Briggs when they give you percents, I get a hundred percent extrovert on that test.

[01:13:15] Like 0% introvert. It's hysterical. And that's okay. Like I'm really. I'm aware around it, and I, I understand how to make sure I'm okay being so extreme. When you're like, I'm tiggering over here to your Eeyore, I got it. I will try not to. Exactly. I'm not going to drag you over here, but I, if you want to talk, I'm here.

[01:13:37] Got it. Upholder, Questioner, Obliger, or Rebel. And this is on the Gretchen Rubin Four Tendencies. Yeah. Say them one more time. Upholder. Upholder. Upholder. That's a, you keep every promise to yourself and everyone else. Questioner it has to be a good idea or you're not doing it. Obliger, you need outer accountability.

[01:13:58] Or rebel, nobody can boss you [01:14:00] around, including yourself. Rebel. I'm a total rebel. And I'm a revolutionary. Like, that's, I, I'm a, when you say I'm inviting people in, I'm inviting you into the revolution that's loving. A revolution of love. I'm in the middle. I'm actually in the middle of rebranding my, my whole business and the, the, the underlying like focus, the, the feel is optimistic, revolutionary.

[01:14:26] Yeah. Great. It's like, I believe in people. I believe the good in people. And I believe that we can change. Let's do this together. Okay. If you're going to automate, eliminate or delegate something from the household, what are you doing?

[01:14:38] I'm probably eliminating or delegating. I have a husband who does a lot, like, I, honestly, we watched the Fair Play documentary together, and I felt bad. I was like, I was like, is this about me and not him, actually, because he does more. He does the grocery shopping. He does the cooking. Like, he's amazing.

[01:14:55] Wait, do you guys have kids? No, and we don't. So we also have a lot [01:15:00] of privilege and bandwidth. No, but that's, but that's also common before people have kids. Like it, it can be very egalitarian and then something kicks in much like, you know, men become golfers. And if a sport takes up a lot of time, they're taking it up after kids and ma and mom personality.

[01:15:18] You, you, Even unwittingly take on that. Like everything's now my responsibility. I'm just telling you it happened to me. And I was like, Oh my God, what is this? I don't like this sweater. It's very uncomfortable. We got to fix this. Anyway, I love that loud too, that we've made an active choice to be child free.

[01:15:36] So I like to permission other women and model that for women, that that's like a choice in the world. And I'm really happy with it. And we're really happy with it. And I don't actually feel the lot of like meeting. To defend that choice or anything like it's been a really and also I really invest in the care of kids in my life on any given day I'm getting, you know, five text messages from a teenage girl who needs me, right?

[01:15:59] Like I have [01:16:00] available energy and bandwidth to give to kids in a different way as a trusted adult. Interestingly, so we are parents through international adoption, but we did not come to adoption because of loss. Adoption was our first choice. And people find that interesting. It's like, no, right. Where I'm like, yeah, I, this, I wanted to do this.

[01:16:22] Yeah. Cool. I actually really, really understand that. Yeah. It's, it's not a choice for everyone. However, neither, I mean, thank you for that. Okay. What's the last book that you read that you're like, shut up. Everyone needs to read this. Ooh. I mean, the last one that, well, the Creative Act, Rick Rubin and Neil Strauss wrote it, I, it really helped me just to connect to my own spiritual creativity, and that was pretty recent I read that and, but I will, I'll say like an overall one that I think everyone needs to read is Brene Brown's The Gifts of Imperfection.

[01:16:56] It's super digestible and easy to read, and it just is [01:17:00] the soul path. It will make you cry. For foreshadowing. If, if you struggle with perfectionist, you would be like, she following me around with a clipboard. What's your favorite book of all time? Oh, well it might be The Gifts of Imperfection. That's hard 'cause each one has like hit my life at a different, meaningful moment.

[01:17:21] Mm-hmm . Like so I think that's the one I most recommend and say it's kind of like a mantra that can serve all. So I think that probably is it. Okay. And then would that also be your personal development pick? Yeah. Yes. You're like, well, you're like, I have a theme here. Everyone should read that. And it's funny.

[01:17:39] I've done that. I've done it with book club. Well, and it's perfect book club. It's like mine where it's really easy, digestible chapters. And then I read it with teenage girls over the summer and they're like, what it's, it's so easy to absorb kind of the deep wise lessons of it in a engaging way.

[01:17:55] Absolutely. And also you can take away that. Because perfectionism [01:18:00] has that, that dark side of saying, only one that has to work this hard to be this mediocre. And you're like, wait, everybody hears that message? That's crazy. How do we, how are we all on the same wavelength? Okay, what's your favorite social media channel?

[01:18:18] Instagram? Yeah, I'm mostly on Instagram, yeah. Are you a grid person or a stories person? Grid? I gotta say, okay, what's interesting, I mean, I'll throw things up on stories, but I post to my grid all the time. And I know it's like, super weird that I do it, I mean, it's because, here's the reason, I actually just want to remember whatever I'm posting about.

[01:18:40] Like, to me, it's like a photo album, practically. It's my memories and my history and I want to save it. Yeah, you're like, I just documented my life and there's no need to hide that. Gotcha. I'm not gonna just willy nilly throw that out into the universe and have it go away. Like I'm, I'm, I, I spend a lot of time thinking about what I want to say or what I'm processing.

[01:18:57] And like, I don't know, I want to keep [01:19:00] it. You're like, there's my mini blog. You're welcome. What's your favorite TV show, past or present? Oh oh man. There's so many. There's so many I'm loving right now. I'm really, because I have done a lot of work in the entertainment industry around healthy masculinity narratives.

[01:19:19] So I'm really into shows like Ted Lasso and Shrinking where they're showing masculinity in a brand new light. I'm so into the innovation that's happening with those. And then on the other front, I'm really always into like a super empowered woman like the diplomats on right now that like I've been really liking or I mean, I'll even go to like the Handmaid's Tale, I think is like a masterpiece.

[01:19:41] And I, so that's like really heavy. But then I also really love accessibility of comedy. I don't know. This is hard. I, I'm in the entertainment industry in a big way. I was a screenwriter too. So, and all my friends are in entertainment, so. Right, but isn't it, we have an embarrassment of riches in terms of TV.

[01:19:58] Like when we were young, it was like [01:20:00] there were movie stars and it was, I thought it was like our lives were much more movie focused. And then. At some point we came to like the TV, like the quality from movies came to TV and that's, it's been shockingly good for the last, the golden era. Yeah, man. All right.

[01:20:18] And finally, last but not least, everyone's favorite question. Chelsea Gooden, what is your favorite swear word?

[01:20:23] I think it's fuck. You're in good company. I, it's interesting too. Cause I don't I do swear. And I don't know, it's like a fitting thing for the emotion and moment of it is. Like, it's interesting how we kind of quell it also. Because we need to be like, nice, act like a lady. It's these messages again.

[01:20:45] And I've always kind of wondered, like, what decided that that made you bad? That you were swearing. It's like another way to communi it's a communication tool. Right. I mean, and especially that particular word. [01:21:00] Is usually used in a dissatisfaction or anger or whatever. And it could be as simple as like, ma'am, you don't get to have dissatisfaction.

[01:21:13] You're going to eat those crumbs and enjoy them. And we're like, fuck that. Right. Fuck that. Yeah. Fuck that. It's you know, it's, it's, it's maybe trying to squelch women's anger, which is another. Yeah. Okay. That's how I think my connection to the word, it's not me just trying to be edgy and cool, you know, whatever narrative I like.

[01:21:31] It's actually more of just like, let me, let me be my full self, right? Like I'm angry. I'm, I'm having big emotions, Chelsea. Thank you so much. I. So enjoyed our conversation. Yeah, this has been so wonderful. I've done so many podcasts and this had so much glorious ease and goodness and you are so good at just truly flowing and elevating what's the most important topic that we should be talking about.

[01:21:59] And, and I [01:22:00] just, I love all the wisdom you added to this conversation as well. Thank you so much. Thank you. Everybody go find Chelsea. figure out a way where you can start a book club with your people and or bring her to your organization or your workplace or hell, bring her into your home so that you can learn more how to stop underestimating not just teenage girls, but the other women in your life and yourself.

[01:22:28] And until next week, remember that you matter too.