EP 254: Lessons from Living Abroad

This week on the podcast I am sharing my conversation with fellow coach, Ivana Robinson.

Ivana Robinson is a certified Life & Leadership Coach and reformed corporate ladder climber who helps women disillusioned with the status quo to abandon the rulebook, liberate themselves from expectations, and prioritize their desires without guilt.

Through her email list and social media accounts, Ivana serves thousands of people per week, encouraging her audience to feel the fear and do the damn thing anyway. Ivana’s inspiring & rebellious journey helps audiences realize that bravery and confidence are already inside of them.

Ivana's favorite form of self-care is saying no, but two things she'll never turn down: an afternoon nap or a Beyoncé concert.

This conversation with Ivana reignited my interest in living abroad. Ivana figured it out and now lives in Mexico.

Have you ever dreamt of living abroad?

Ivana also hosts retreats that sound dreamy. I used to host retreats. Would you be interested in going on a retreat hosted by me?

Show links:

• http://ivanarobinson.com

Transcript:

[00:00:00] Tami: Welcome back everyone. I am super excited to introduce you to a pal that I met a couple years ago in a program for future thought leaders where we got to figure out what we wanted to Say to the world and how to say it. And I'm really excited to introduce you to my new pal, my new old pal. So Vanna, please tell us who are you and what do you do in the world? 

[00:00:32] Ivana: Yeah. I'm a life and leadership coach, a writer, a retreat, co host live in my dream in Mexico city. 

[00:00:41] Tami: Okay, I'm sorry, that last part, the living the dream in Mexico City, you are a United States citizen living abroad. Can you talk a little bit about that? Because that's one of the reasons why I was like, Ooh, Ooh, this is a thing because I've always wanted to live [00:01:00] abroad. 

[00:01:00] Tami: But I think that is a giant project that I'm like, can I even get my head around that? Tell us a little bit about how that came to be and how do you even handle that?  

[00:01:08] Ivana: Yeah similarly, I always wanted to live abroad. I've lived abroad before. I worked in Belgium for a couple of years. So that was a different experience is like a corporate expat. 

[00:01:19] Ivana: Mexico. I did this all on my own. It's not as difficult as I think people make it. There are a lot of places where you can get residency. I'm not going to say it's easy, but it is doable.  

[00:01:32] Tami: So if, if you have that goal, it's like as simple as the first step would be decide where you think you want to go, and then Google the words United States citizen residency in your country. 

[00:01:46] Tami: City or country that you're interested in  

[00:01:49] Ivana: in the country. Yeah, and see what what visas are available to you Some of them require you to meet like a financial requirement So do you have enough money to meet [00:02:00] that financial requirement? But I always advocate for doing these things sooner rather than later because financial requirements are always Only going to go up  

[00:02:09] Tami: right now. 

[00:02:10] Tami: That makes total sense. And you know what? I, this was actually not in a full disclosure. Everyone, this was not on our list of questions that I sent. I want to probably say, Oh my God, I've been meaning to ask you this. Okay. So you're a leadership and life coach. Tell us more about your work. Who's your favorite kind of client? 

[00:02:28] Tami: How do you work with people? You're all the way in Mexico  

[00:02:32] Ivana: city. How does it work? That's an excellent question. Yeah, so I, I typically work with women trying to empower them to live a rule free 10 life all about, you know, freedom, authenticity, being unapologetic, and how we show up in the world. So a lot of my work is one on one and online. 

[00:02:53] Ivana: And then when I want to go in real life, I host Reclaim the Retreat. which happens either here in [00:03:00] Mexico or El Salvador. And we get to come together to talk about how to align your time, your money, your energy with the goals that you have, with the dream life you're trying to live, as well as getting to connect with the community. 

[00:03:15] Ivana: I'm going to be on the ground in that location.  

[00:03:17] Tami: So in other words, you're meeting with people who perhaps are feeling dissatisfied with the status quo and you're like, I'm over here. You could actually live a life where you make up your own rules that make more sense for you because I don't know if you know this everyone. 

[00:03:37] Tami: We But the rules that we're all living under, they're fucking made up. So fake. Right, they're so fake, they're, they're not, they, usually they're not made up by you. And if someone else can make up rules for your life, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say we could say I did not subscribe to that channel, and I'm gonna go ahead and make rules for myself. 

[00:03:59] Ivana: Yes, [00:04:00] because why not? You know, like, I'm a black woman, so the rules that exist were definitely not made by me. With my success, my fulfillment in mind. So I should not behold myself to them and expect that I'm going to feel great about it at the day.  

[00:04:14] Tami: Absolutely. And so are most of your clients professionals or are they entrepreneurs? 

[00:04:22] Tami: Like who do you work with? Primarily?  

[00:04:25] Ivana: Most of my clients are professionals. I think they, they tend to have a corporate background like I do, but not always but they are. People who have kind of gone through the motions of checking the boxes of like, I went to school in this way, and then I got the job in this way, and I maybe had the family and bought the house, or maybe I want the family and bought the house, but I'm trying to figure out how that fits. 

[00:04:48] Ivana: Right. And they  

[00:04:49] Tami: all also have in comments, like they followed the script that told them they were going to be happy. And then they did all the things and they look around and they're like, is anyone fucking [00:05:00] happy with this? Is this it? Is it? But I thought after I did all the things that I would be happy, I ended up with a lot of private clients in that same boat. 

[00:05:11] Tami: And mine are usually. Like 10 or 15, sometimes even 20 years into their like multiple six figure job. And they're like, excuse me, ma'am, do you have a book of matches? And I'm like, what would you ever need matches for? And they're like, my fucking life.  

[00:05:25] Ivana: Yeah.  

[00:05:26] Tami: I'm like, hold, please. Before we burn everything down, let's try some things. 

[00:05:34] Tami: So, so it's like, it sounds like we work with similar clients in that it's like, they're high achieving women. There are people who have done all the things society has said. If you do this, you'll get that. And we've all been sold a lie. That is actually not how happiness and satisfaction in life is created.[00:06:00]  

[00:06:00] Tami: Not at all. Not at all. Okay. So so tell me, so you work one on one mostly with folks and then when, and then are the people who come on your retreats, are they your private clients that get together with other people who are creating this own path for themselves? Or are they people who are like, Oh, I just want the VIP treatment. 

[00:06:20] Tami: I need an escape from my life. I want to see, I want to step out of what I'm in and step into something that could be.  

[00:06:29] Ivana: I would say it's a little bit of both and why we host the retreats in the way that we do of getting you, because most of our clients are in the U. S., so getting you out of the U. S. brings on a different mindset, getting out of your day to day routine allows you to start to kind of think things, think about things differently. 

[00:06:47] Ivana: And I think a lot of us struggle with making these types of life changes because we don't have the proper support system. In place or the support system we have just is not ready to support us in the way that we [00:07:00] might need for that change. And so at a retreat, you get to meet other women and fans who are going through this, who want to not necessarily blow up their lives, but want to live a life of their making. 

[00:07:12] Ivana: And so then you get to support each other because you are, you are trying to do the same thing, maybe just in different ways.  

[00:07:19] Tami: Yeah, I mean, it's that idea that if you can see it, you can be it. And you're like, just, if you want to be a runner, surround yourself with people who are runners. If you want to be a drinker, you should definitely hang out with people who are drinking. 

[00:07:33] Tami: If you want, Basically, whatever you want, hang out with people who are already doing it, so that you don't feel like you're crazy, because here's the thing, when we make changes, the people who have been with us, and we'll just call it our old life, they like us just the way we are, because then they don't have to change. 

[00:07:51] Ivana: Correct.  

[00:07:52] Tami: Right? And it very, if you guys don't know this, If you have a bucket of crabs, [00:08:00] and one crab walks on the back of another crab, and another crab walks on the back, and one of the crabs gets up over the edge, and they got one foot still hanging in the bucket, those fucking crabs, even the ones that were going towards that, will grab that crab and yank it back in the bucket. 

[00:08:18] Ivana: Yes.  

[00:08:20] Tami: I know. When I learned that, I was like, damn. So crabs and humans have things in common,  

[00:08:26] Ivana: very much in common, and I think it's, how do I want to say we, we want the best for those we love in a general sense, but we also all have our own ideas about what that looks like. And so that is the beauty of being a coach. 

[00:08:42] Ivana: Safety  

[00:08:42] Tami: and security, right? Everybody's like, I want you to be safe and secure. You should live in the same place and you should have the same job and you should save for retirement twice as much and you should do, you should make zero [00:09:00] waves because you're going to stay safe. And what the work that we do and the work that coaches do is we're like, Hey, I get it. 

[00:09:08] Tami: Change is scary.  

[00:09:09] Ivana: Yes. That is the great part about it is getting to be that independent third party.  

[00:09:15] Tami: Our brain thinks crossing the street is dangerous. And you know what? It can be. If you don't follow precautions, but mostly it's just crossing the fucking street. It's just deciding that rule over there that wasn't made for me is not for me. 

[00:09:33] Ivana: Yes.  

[00:09:34] Tami: Yeah.  

[00:09:35] Ivana: And figuring out how you want to move forward in a way that makes sense for you. And I'm very much about like, start where you are because there isn't. It's this one size fits all roadmap that is going to get you there. You know, I live in Mexico, I live this great life and people see that and they think I need to move to Mexico. 

[00:09:54] Ivana: And I'm like, that's not what I said.  

[00:09:57] Tami: Exactly. Right. You're like, that's not what I [00:10:00] said. You're like, also just remember, I lived in Belgium before and I lived in the United States before. And you're like, I've done a lot of things. And it's that idea of getting clear about the future. Vision of an individual's life is individual. 

[00:10:17] Ivana: Yes.  

[00:10:18] Tami: But it really comes to fruition when you're in community with other people who are like, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to do something different than what I've known that what the people around me are doing. And even though. The person next to me and my coach, they're doing different things. 

[00:10:36] Tami: It's just being in the company of people who are working on similar issues. It helps you get there so much faster because you're like, Oh, I didn't even know that was possible yet. What else do I not think is possible? Oh, I accidentally limited my, my My realm of choices, because I had never met somebody.[00:11:00]  

[00:11:00] Tami: What was the first thing I asked you, Oh, how did you live abroad?  

[00:11:03] Ivana: Yeah,  

[00:11:04] Tami: no, I'm 54 and I have fucking Google. I could have said, How do I live abroad? I did research at once 25 years ago, but that was before I had a kid. That was before I did a lot of things. It's not out of the realm. Because I know people that are doing it. 

[00:11:20] Tami: I'm like, it's not out of the realm for me because one of my life philosophies is if she You can do it. Why can't I do it? Right. Okay. So 

[00:11:32] Tami: you're doing one on one work mostly and you're doing your retreat work. And so since you are in a different time zone and a different country people, how do they work with you? Is it like Zoom? Tell us more about your actual programming.  

[00:11:45] Ivana: Yes. So it is online. Usually, you know, a team's zoom, whatever is kind of working, whatever video  

[00:11:53] Tami: conferencing service  

[00:11:55] Ivana: is easiest. 

[00:11:56] Ivana: Yes. It is actually helpful. Like I said, most of my clients are us [00:12:00] based. Mexico is central standard time, so it's generally very easy for me to maneuver within the day to talk to clients and, and see them where they're at. Yeah, usually people, I guess, seek me out because they are ready to answer the question of what it is that I want. 

[00:12:20] Ivana: I don't necessarily know what it is and I think coming to a coach or what I like the work as a coach is really helping you to uncover it because we all have the answer. I think we all know deep down inside what it is that we want, but between family, societal expectations, fear, we've covered it up. We buried it deep in there. 

[00:12:44] Ivana: And so we don't know how to recognize it or have the confidence and the power to own it. When we need to,  

[00:12:50] Tami: right? Okay. So this is also a question that I did not give you ahead of time, but I am curious. So you work with a lot of. Corporate gals, [00:13:00] because you are, that is your background. We work with a lot of teachers. 

[00:13:03] Tami: Well, that is my background. I work with a lot of political people because that's my background. Because birds of a feather, right? Tell us how you went from corporate to coach.  

[00:13:13] Ivana: Well, that's an interesting story. So it was always a joke that my second career was going to be a coach. I'm the person that people come to to kind of talk through their decisions and do things like that. 

[00:13:25] Ivana: And I worked in consulting for about seven, eight years beforehand. And it got to a point where I'm like, this is the part of my job that I like. I like helping my team figure out what is next for them. How to find these opportunities, what to do, as opposed to my client's problems in my mind, I'm like, that's not real do it. 

[00:13:44] Ivana: Don't do it. I don't care. I'm not your shareholder, whatever,  

[00:13:49] Tami: right? You're like, I'm sure somebody would be, somebody else would be hella good at the job I'm currently sitting in. That would be terrific. But I like this part that I accidentally created for myself [00:14:00] because people naturally come to me. I mean, when I first started being a coach, people are like, how'd you get there? 

[00:14:03] Tami: I'm like, if I sit next to you. anywhere. You're going to tell me something you have never told anyone.  

[00:14:12] Ivana: Yes.  

[00:14:13] Tami: And I don't know why you do that either. Literally everyone's like, I've never told anyone this before. And then they tell me something. And I'm like, that's interesting. Tell me more because I am fucking Yuri us about people. 

[00:14:26] Tami: I'm like, Oh, tell me more. How'd you get there? Why'd you quit? Why'd you start that? I'm like, tell me because I find it. Fascinating.  

[00:14:37] Ivana: Yeah. And so actually 2020 February of 2020, I went on this amazing trip to Antarctica. I had this whole goal of visiting all seven continents before I turned 30. And Antarctica was my last one. 

[00:14:51] Ivana: So I was like, I'm going out here. It's going to be great. I'm going to accomplish this big goal. We get to Antarctica, like I'm standing on the [00:15:00] deck and there's just this. Big epiphany that washes over me. I am so happy. I am so full of joy I feel so content in that moment and I was like, I deserve to feel like this all the time So I returned home on Friday. 

[00:15:15] Ivana: I quit my job on Monday 

[00:15:16] Tami: I love this because I too have had big epiphany moments where the your next step is So clear.  

[00:15:27] Ivana: Yeah,  

[00:15:28] Tami: but it doesn't You When I am stuck in traffic or doing the same old grind. It's when I've stepped slightly out of the ordinary. Like, I have had a lot of big grief moments over the last decade. And I'm going to tell you what. 

[00:15:47] Tami: Deep grief gets you real clear because it knocks you out of your regular pattern of thinking.  

[00:15:55] Ivana: Yes.  

[00:15:55] Tami: And travel does the same thing where you're like, I don't know where the bathroom is. [00:16:00] I don't know what the hell I'm going to eat. People are like, are you hungry? You're like, I don't know. What is on offer? 

[00:16:05] Tami: Because I need to know if I need to be hungry or if I need to like tamp this down because I don't think I want to eat that because right now I'm thinking, Oh my God, what did you eat in Antarctica? We're going to have a whole other conversation about travel at some other later date. So you have this, you set a goal, you created this full travel life for yourself. 

[00:16:26] Tami: You do it. And then in February. 2020, you're like, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to go ahead and blow up my life. And the world went, now you get to stay home. So where did you end up having your pandemic experience? Where were you?  

[00:16:43] Ivana: So I, when I moved back from Belgium, I moved back to Colorado, which is where my family is. 

[00:16:49] Ivana: I was living with my best friend and that is where I was when the world shut down. And so while my plan at that point had been. Let me go to Mexico. Let me go figure this out [00:17:00] because I wanted to live in Mexico City for years And the world shut down and I was like, well, I don't have an income So what I should not do is go to a country and then have their borders closed So let me hang out here and figure out another plan. 

[00:17:17] Ivana: And that is when I got my coaching certification. 

[00:17:20] Tami: I love that because why not? Oh my God. Okay. So if somebody is listening right now and they're like, I would like an epiphany about my life. I would like to have new rules. I would like to reclaim. I don't even know what I'm reclaiming because I've been playing by everybody else's rules.  

[00:17:43] Ivana: Yeah.  

[00:17:43] Tami: But I want to know more. 

[00:17:45] Tami: Where can people find out about you and how you work with people and how they can work with you?  

[00:17:53] Ivana: Yeah. I make that easy. I have on a robinson. com.  

[00:17:58] Tami: Can you spell that? Because [00:18:00] there's like, is it one N is it two? Is it There we go.  

[00:18:05] Ivana: It is I, V as in Victor, A, N as in Nancy, A, Robinson, R O B I N S O N.  

[00:18:16] Tami: Perfect. 

[00:18:16] Tami: And then you can find out all the information about your work, when your retreats are and what you're looking for in clients and how you can help people.  

[00:18:26] Ivana: Yes.  

[00:18:27] Tami: Okay. I love that. Now I'm dying to know. How does self care affect your work and I've seen because of the life that you live, I see your work, not only as a coach and retreat host, but also as an adventurer, as somebody who lives a life that other people look at and go, How do I get that? 

[00:18:56] Tami: Right. Okay. So tell me, how does self care fit into those [00:19:00] parts of your, your  

[00:19:02] Ivana: life? Yeah. I feel like my work is self care in that while we talk about the, the day to day things one can do in order to take care of ourselves, in order to feel better, the reality is, is Those tend to be South on a very big problem, which is very structural and institutional and whatnot. 

[00:19:25] Ivana: And so the way that I see it is the real self care is our ability to make decisions and choices that align with our values. 

[00:19:35] Tami: I'm clapping. Yes. How did you figure out what your values were? Because when you say that to people, There is 100 percent of the time, a blank stare, they're like, Ma'am, I don't know what that, I don't, I think I know what those words mean individually, but when you put them all together in that sentence, what are you saying? 

[00:19:56] Tami: Tell me, tell us more, because this, this trips people up. [00:20:00]  

[00:20:00] Ivana: Very much so. It is something I do with my clients in a, in a particular way, but I think if you were trying to do this work on your own, is to think about, when in your life have you felt great? And what were you doing? And what are, you know, the values? 

[00:20:16] Ivana: You can go just Google values, you'll get a whole list of things. Not to say that everything on there is your value, but it might help you come up with the words of what are the needs that were being met.  

[00:20:27] Tami: Okay, so what are your values or what are some  

[00:20:32] Ivana: freedom and connection are my values and I'm very much  

[00:20:37] Tami: because at first blush when you put freedom next to connection people like how are these related and you're like, girl, let me tell you because autonomy is one of mine. 

[00:20:47] Tami: Yes. Or you could be call it sovereignty. You can call it freedom. I'm it's like, don't fucking boss me around and also love connection. Because we are humans. [00:21:00] Yes. Right. So how do you then it's when you're working in a corporate structure where somebody is like, here's your job and making the universal hand over. 

[00:21:10] Tami: It's like the power over situation. And one of your values is freedom and you have power over you're like, this is never going to be a value aligned situation. Because I'm more of a, I'm more of a collaborative versus a power over.  

[00:21:27] Ivana: Yes. You know, I worked in consulting and so with that, it means I work on a lot of different teams, a lot of different projects. 

[00:21:34] Ivana: And so that became very clear to me of the teams in which I thrived were ones that were collaborative, were ones where people are asking, And accepting your input. And so it was a little more of a flat structure of like, yes. So this person is a partner, but like, they also recognize your experience and. 

[00:21:54] Ivana: Contribution to the team.  

[00:21:56] Tami: So meaning it's, it's like a group project with group [00:22:00] that everyone's participating. Yes. That you're not dragging somebody along or somebody else isn't like inflicting their will on you. So. Yes. Okay. That's good. Right. That's a, because I I've worked in places where it was just power over and I was like, how, how have I found myself here? 

[00:22:20] Tami: This is like such a bad personality fit. I got to go.  

[00:22:25] Ivana: Yes.  

[00:22:25] Tami: Right. Okay. So living your values driven life is the big self care.  

[00:22:32] Ivana: Yeah.  

[00:22:34] Tami: I, I agree. How the hell did you get there? Cause a lot of people are like, well, I just found out what values are, but then when you find your values, once you, and also you don't find them out there, right? 

[00:22:45] Tami: This is all, this is an internal, the call is coming from inside the house. You have to know yourself deeply. 

[00:22:50] Tami: How did that, how did you go from knowing your values to and creating the life that you are living now? 

[00:22:55] Ivana: I'll be honest, I kind of fell into it. Like I said, I blew up my life in [00:23:00] 2020. I quit my job and then, you know, figured out this whole coaching thing and I was just really in a place where I'm like, if this doesn't feel good to me, I got to say no, because this is my time to figure out what it is that I want. 

[00:23:15] Ivana: And what does that look like? Right. Cause we can have the same value. That does it in name, but that does not mean that we want them to be the same in terms of how they show up. And so, I say freedom and connection. What does that mean? What does that look like? And just trying stuff out. 

[00:23:36] Tami: Yeah, I mean, I think experimentation is, 

[00:23:39] Tami: it's like people get stuck in needing to have the answer before they make any Yes. Change and you're like, ma'am, that's actually not how this works. We have to try stuff and then see what happens. And then we can make a different action based on real information. Like, we can't anxiety our way through change. 

[00:23:59] Tami: We just got to [00:24:00] experiment our way through change. Yes,  

[00:24:02] Ivana: a hundred percent. Yes. You know, it's taking that step without seeing the whole staircase. And I think so often we think that people who are quote unquote brave have the answer, right? It's that they're not scared. It's that they figured this out. When the reality is You have to just learn how to be confident in the fact that you can figure shit out. 

[00:24:23] Ivana: You've done it before. You can do it again. We'll figure it out. 

[00:24:27] Tami: I'm going to need to repeat that because I needed to hear that. For a long time, like before I became a coach, actually, it was like at the beginning of my, so I worked in politics, then I went to teaching and then I went to coaching. And the thing is, is like, I used to fret, fret, like, what if I make the wrong decision? 

[00:24:47] Tami: What if I make the wrong decision? And then I would wait until things were so bad that there was absolutely no way I could stay. And then I would make a choice. And then everybody would be like, Oh my God, I can't. How [00:25:00] did you do that? I was like, well, I was going to off myself or I was going to make a change. And what I've learned is you can not, you don't have to wait that long. You can just be like, I think I might want to try something different. And then you just like, you don't burn everything down. You just try a little different. 

[00:25:16] Ivana: Yeah.  

[00:25:17] Tami: Success bear a thing different that doesn't kill you. You're like, wow, look at me. I figured it out. I asked a question. I said, I don't know. I said, what will happen if I try this?  

[00:25:34] Ivana: Yes, and I think women in particular, we tend to hold ourselves to a decision that we've made because we made it. And it's like, no, you made the best decision based on the information you had at that time. 

[00:25:46] Ivana: Now you have new information. It is okay to make a different decision. And it does not mean that you have failed. It does not mean that you are flighty. You're making new decisions. It's what we're doing all the time. 

[00:25:57] Tami: That's actually, it's a funny story. That's actually how I [00:26:00] became a lobbyist. Cause I thought I wanted to be one. And then funny enough, I, I did an informational interview with the person who I thought had the best lobbying job in all of the lobbying jobs in the entire world. And at the end, I legit was like, that sounds absolutely terrible. 

[00:26:15] Tami: You know what I did? I disregarded that and then I did it and I actually became 

[00:26:20] Tami: A decade ago. This is because I got locked into, I made a decision. And I didn't trust myself. Right? But it's a practice. It's not, there's not brave people and people who aren't brave. It's people who take chances, probably measured chances, right? We're not again, burning everything at first, not on the first day, you might end up looking like you burned it all down, but likely it was small fires along the way. 

[00:26:47] Tami: Oh, okay. So are you a millennial? 

[00:26:50] Ivana: Yes.  

[00:26:52] Tami: So you're a millennial, which means you were born in the decade or the generation after me. [00:27:00] So Gen X. We learned zip, zitch, zilch, nothing about self care because people are like, I am busy smoking and drinking and working myself to death and I will in fact be dead at 60. 

[00:27:10] Tami: So as a millennial, yes, what did you learn about self care growing up?  

[00:27:16] Ivana: I feel like, yes, the self care thing became very big. And it was mainly, you know, commercialism that here are all the things that you can buy or the classes you can take that are going to make you feel better, but yeah, living under capitalism and, 

[00:27:31] Tami: Right. 

[00:27:32] Tami: Okay, so did you actually grow up in Colorado?  

[00:27:35] Ivana: Yes, born and raised.  

[00:27:37] Tami: As a Black woman in Colorado?  

[00:27:39] Ivana: Mm hmm.  

[00:27:40] Tami: That seems like a lot. 

[00:27:41] Ivana: Yes. 

[00:27:42] Tami: Yeah.  

[00:27:42] Ivana: Yes.  

[00:27:42] Tami: For those of you that are like, what are the long pauses? Y'all, Colorado's very, very, very homogeneous. Yes, it's very wide. It's almost, it's almost Utah.  

[00:27:52] Ivana: I mean, and it very much I think is a place, it depends on where you live. 

[00:27:55] Ivana: are. So there is a fair, I'm not gonna say it's large, but there is, there are [00:28:00] a fair amount of black people because of the military. So most people I know who were born and raised there, it's because usually a grandparent or a parent was in the military and got stationed there. And that is my family story. 

[00:28:13] Ivana: So there are black people that exist. But I think as with many locations. When it comes to like your schooling and things, if you want the quote unquote better schooling, you are where the money is. And therefore that usually tends to be more. And so while I had my family and I had like, our church was black and like had definitely, you know, that community, my day to day was very white. 

[00:28:37] Tami: Y'all. The reason I bring that up is because being an only in places is fucking hard and it takes a lot of energy and bandwidth to to survive microaggressions. And a lot of times when you're the only, you're like, that shit ain't not micro, that is a macroaggression.  

[00:28:57] Ivana: And you don't, particularly at the time that I was growing up, you [00:29:00] don't necessarily know that. 

[00:29:01] Ivana: You know that that thing makes you feel uncomfortable. You know that other people are not dealing with this, but being able to put words to that experience. It's like when you're a kid and the only that doesn't exist.  

[00:29:12] Tami: Exactly. And, and you're, and it's like, your family's also going through that. Exactly. 

[00:29:18] Tami: Right. So it's like self care can also mean different things in different generations because it's like, we're doing different things to survive. But you're like, okay, so, but what actions were we able to take in this era in this area of the country? to not only feel better, but like maybe even grow a little bit. 

[00:29:40] Tami: But again, a lot of it was that like, you know what you should do? You could go get your nails done, go do this. And you're like, yes, I could. But much like that checklist go to this high school, get good grades, go to this college, get good grades, go to do this, get your professional degree, get it. At the end of it, you're like, God, it's so weird. 

[00:29:59] Tami: [00:30:00] I look fantastic. It just doesn't feel like it doesn't feel good.  

[00:30:06] Ivana: Yes,  

[00:30:06] Tami: it doesn't feel like the life that I wanted, and I put a lot of effort into this. So it's, yeah, it's a lot. So given all of that, where do you feel like your self care, now that you're a grown up, how, how are you really tending to yourself? 

[00:30:26] Tami: How do you practice self care now?  

[00:30:28] Ivana: Yeah, I mean, there are the little things of like, I take a nap almost every day.  

[00:30:33] Tami: Now, is that a Mexico thing or was that before?  

[00:30:36] Ivana: I think it's always something I've enjoyed doing. But because of the nature of the corporate space was not something that was available to me. 

[00:30:44] Ivana: And so I think that going back to self care being a little bit bigger than checking the boxes, it's the agency that I have now in being an entrepreneur and being in Mexico and kind of doing my own thing is like, like, I don't talk to people before 10. I'm not a morning person. [00:31:00] That's not how I function. 

[00:31:01] Ivana: Like nine to five is not my time. And so those are the hours. Actually, I  

[00:31:07] Tami: like to sleep is nine to five. I like to sleep 9. PM to five. Yeah. Right. Like, but nine to five work it. No, thank you. That seems terrible.  

[00:31:18] Ivana: Awful. And so being able to make choices. That make me feel good. And I say that in like a broad sense of like, there are the day to day things of how I live my life or how I connect with people, right. 

[00:31:31] Ivana: And getting to have more choices over that taking naps, but then it's also in the values on the macro in terms of what are the causes that I am devoted to and committing my time and energy to, or how I'm structuring my community in order to be. Supportive and I say that it's like the circle of community and that we are supporting each other  

[00:31:54] Tami: and then we're connected to each other, whether people want to admit that or not, but [00:32:00] how each of us lives in the world affects how each other person lives in the world. 

[00:32:05] Tami: Yes, there is exactly zero people doing life independently. No matter how prickly they are or claiming this, like, solo cowboy. No. Nope.  

[00:32:21] Ivana: Huh  

[00:32:21] Tami: Nope.  

[00:32:22] Ivana: We're supposed to be doing it together. Regardless of, like, the American dream and American individualism kind of teaches you is you aren't supposed to be able to do it all by yourself. 

[00:32:34] Ivana: That's ridiculous.  

[00:32:37] Tami: If for nothing else, there's too much to be done.  

[00:32:40] Ivana: Yes.  

[00:32:42] Tami: But beyond that, we're a social species that actually relies on each other. Where do you feel like things are going well and what could use more attention from you?  

[00:32:53] Ivana: I honestly think I'm in a place where I need to do a little, a little values [00:33:00] check in. 

[00:33:01] Ivana: I think your values can shift depending on the circumstances and the current life stage that you're in. Even if the values themselves don't change, once again, how they show up for you or how you want to enact them may shift. Because I do feel like I'm really good on the micro. I'm doing, I'm like very much lading into my creativity right now. 

[00:33:20] Ivana: I've been taking a lot of Writing classes and getting back into sewing. I'm taking a sewing class in Spanish, which  

[00:33:29] Tami: You just next leveled, like, your lifelong learning. You're like, I'm learning a new skill in a language that is not native to my brain. And then I cried because I was like, Oh, I didn't know what that meant. 

[00:33:42] Tami: Huh. That's why it didn't work because I didn't know what that meant. I thought it was this other thing. This  

[00:33:47] Ivana: is not what it meant for me. Yeah, and really try to hone in on other ways in which I want to connect. I think that my, you know, community in certain aspects here in Mexico is really great. I also think there's a lot to be done because my language skills are [00:34:00] not where they want them to be in the way in which I want to connect with the local community. 

[00:34:04] Ivana: And Mexico also just had an election and has a new president. And While I read the news, I'm trying to understand the historical stuff, right, of how we got here, and why people feel the way that they do, and just understanding the place that I live in.  

[00:34:20] Tami: And didn't Mexico just elect their first female president? 

[00:34:23] Tami: They did. Interesting.  

[00:34:25] Ivana: It's very funny. We're  

[00:34:27] Tami: recording this before the U. S. election. Yes. That's why we are both smiling at each other's faces. But also we're like, and we still have work to do. And yes, Ivana voted from Because voters abroad, we've had a lot of people who didn't know that was a thing. 

[00:34:47] Tami: And it turns out that there was a big push to be like, Hey! expats. Hey, people that are taking your semester abroad. Hey, people who are working remotely, you can still vote. So that don't [00:35:00] worry, that's all taken care of. But we don't know if we have our first female president yet. But the good thing is that Mexico is showing us the way. 

[00:35:07] Ivana: Well, it's very funny to me because in like on the ground here in Mexico, Claudia being a woman, does not register. She, because I mean, Wait,  

[00:35:16] Tami: why does it not register? Is, would you say that there is less misogyny in Mexico?  

[00:35:21] Ivana: No, I would not I love that you're like,  

[00:35:23] Tami: absolutely not.  

[00:35:24] Ivana: No. No, I would not say that at all. 

[00:35:26] Ivana: But I think she was kind of the the, I guess the assumed, what's the word, successor of the last president. And she, she was the previous. It's like, they call it the jefa de gobierno, which is basically like the mayor of Mexico City. And so that is usually the job that is going to catapult you into the presidency. 

[00:35:47] Ivana: And so I think for a long time, the assumption was it was going to be Claudia. Also her biggest competition was also a woman. And so in, I think the local people, like their mind is, it was always [00:36:00] going to be a woman, whether it was Claudia or it was Xochitl, it was going to be a woman. I don't know why you guys are talking about this. 

[00:36:07] Ivana: It's kind of the vibe that I've had. I cannot  

[00:36:10] Tami: wait until we have that conversation again, Mexico. Thanks for showing us the way.  

[00:36:17] Ivana: Yes. I do have to also add something that I found very different here is I did not know anything about the, these women's personal lives until fairly recently. And it didn't even occur to me that I was like, Oh, she's married now. 

[00:36:31] Ivana: Does she have kids? I don't know. She talked about being a grandma. But that was not anything that was brought up during the election in terms of like her capabilities.  

[00:36:42] Tami: Oh, is that because they don't need to have a 24 hour news source where they're like, I need to have something to talk about. So I just shut up as I go make a  

[00:36:51] Ivana: news out of no news,  

[00:36:52] Tami: man, I had to tell you like this fascinates me. 

[00:36:55] Tami: So it's when I, when I travel, the things I like to do is I like to watch local TV where [00:37:00] I'm always like, what is happening? Everything from like the news programming, like, so the first time I went to London, I looked up for my breakfast and a grown man was reading newspapers to the audience on the TV and I turned to my British friend, I was like, is that guy reading the newspaper to the audience? 

[00:37:23] Tami: And she said, yeah. But I was like, what, on what, what planet does this make sense? And she goes, right, she goes, well, they're reading from the conservative paper, they're reading from the liberal paper, and they're reading from the supposed neutral paper. And it's ideas like, here's the three ways to look at this. 

[00:37:40] Tami: and the viewer is supposed to decide. I was like, but he has a newspaper in front of his face. It's like, it was so weird. So I love to watch the news. I love to go to the grocery store and I love to go to cafes because it's like, I want to see how people who live in the place actually live. So this is endlessly fascinating to me.[00:38:00]  

[00:38:00] Tami: And then this idea of like, well, it's going to be a woman. So that's not because it's going to be. Your choice is a woman or a woman. So we don't have to make that a thing. It's so refreshing. I cannot wait to have that problem. Yeah. So good. Okay. So you're digging into the creativity, the connection, but what I find interesting, and I want to point this out is you're like, I have the same values, but you're being responsive to your values. 

[00:38:32] Tami: Rather than reactive. You're not like, I got to throw everything away because things around you are changing. You're just like, no, I need to check in with myself to say, is this still working? Is this where I want to be in five years with these values? Because the values right now in five months, this is working, but we don't just always live in the five months. 

[00:38:52] Tami: We do have to look at the five years.  

[00:38:54] Ivana: Yeah. And I think the, you know, it is the right now, what do I need versus. You know, [00:39:00] post-election, what, what might I need? How that shows up for me. And just being open to that and learning about myself and caring for myself. I think there's a certain level of like compassion that is also required in self-care. 

[00:39:16] Tami: And I have to say that. One of the biggest tenets of how I talk about self care is that we start with compassion for ourselves. And if you can have, if you can have self compassion, you're automatically being compassionate towards other people.  

[00:39:30] Ivana: Yeah.  

[00:39:31] Tami: Like it, because that we all have this, No, excuse me. 

[00:39:35] Tami: Most people have this really hard inner critic and if you can tame that and get that, that guy under control and be like, yes, we're okay. Then you can, it, it, it comes out. Okay. So you said you're not a morning person, but I'm still always wanting to know what do people do? What do you do before work? 

[00:39:55] Tami: Like what's your morning routine?  

[00:39:57] Ivana: So depending on how my day, [00:40:00] what is planned for the day, I 30 minutes to just. be in my bed. I will play with my phone. I will read, but we are not leaving the bed for at least 30 minutes. Like I just want to enjoy the space and the time to be there. After that I do the basics of, you know, the skincare, the brushing of the teeth, and then going out to make my tea. 

[00:40:23] Ivana: And those are, those are really the things that have to happen before I start my day.  

[00:40:27] Tami: I would just like to point out that there, those 30 minutes are not because it could have gone like this. I, I set my alarm for 30 minutes before I have to leave the door at the moment my alarm goes off. I act like I have been catapulted out of this bed. 

[00:40:44] Tami: I'm right in the shower. I'm taking, I'm running while I'm in the shower, like, cause some people start their day in such a way that I'm like you know, you just Major self going to fight or flight. Right. And that's how you're starting. So I am also a slow starter [00:41:00] where I'm like, what time do I have to be up for? 

[00:41:02] Tami: Great. Well, I'm gonna set the alarm for three 30, because I need to do a little journaling and I needed to know what happened on the internet while I was asleep. So it doesn't matter what time I gotta be somewhere. I'm going to set the alarm earlier. Cause I need to not, one of my values is not hurrying. 

[00:41:20] Ivana: Okay. I love it.  

[00:41:22] Tami: Yeah, because it stresses me out and I'm not, I'm not kind in that way.  

[00:41:26] Ivana: And we are not meant to be in that state of fight or flight all the time. And so if you're trying to hold everything is important and everything has to get done and you're the one who has to do it all. Oh, no,  

[00:41:37] Tami: it's like, no, is exactly it. 

[00:41:40] Tami: We're saying no to the hurry because we do have at least some control over how we spend our days.  

[00:41:49] Ivana: Yes.  

[00:41:50] Tami: Even if you have a nine to five, everyone. Yes. Even if you have a nine to five, because I've had some feedback where people are like, Oh my God, I love all these interesting women that you talk to on the podcast, but it [00:42:00] seems like everybody works for themselves. 

[00:42:01] Tami: And you know, I just, I have a regular job and I have kids and I'm like, yes. And there's 168 hours in a week. And if you work even 50 of them, guess what? You got a hundred and what, 18 hours left. Build some pleasure into your life and you're like, when again, set that alarm for 30 minutes before read your smutty novel whilst drinking your favorite hot beverage from your bed in like, by the way, your bed should be comfortable and cool enough or warm enough. 

[00:42:39] Tami: Your jammies should fit like all of these things. Yes. They matter. These little things matter.  

[00:42:46] Ivana: Yes. Like, they very much matter and I think it's finding that level of agency in your life is the thing that's going to continue to propel you forward.  

[00:42:58] Tami: Right. And I think a lot of people struggle with [00:43:00] the word agency. 

[00:43:00] Tami: So when you say that, what does that mean to you?  

[00:43:03] Ivana: To me, it means that you get to make choices. And I think you're the  

[00:43:09] Tami: boss of your own self. If you're,  

[00:43:10] Ivana: you're the boss. And I think we sometimes take that as I can do whatever I want, whatever I want. And I'm like, no, I'm not saying that all the choices are choices that you want or your favorite choices, but there is a choice to be made and you get to make it. 

[00:43:26] Tami: I love that because you hit it on the head. Do we have to pay our bills? Yes. Do you want to do it online? Do you want to do it via. a check. Do you want to do it automatically? Do you want to actually write a check and get an envelope with a stamp? Do you, it's like, but here's the thing, much like toddlers, when you give them a choice in how they live, and the choices can be very small when people feel like they have control over their lives, that's the [00:44:00] place where you feel like, Oh, if I'm in control of this little bit, then perhaps I'm in control of where I live, what kind of job I have. 

[00:44:10] Ivana: Yes. And I think we get locked up in that like binary thinking and particularly when it comes to the job stuff. And I think particularly when you are someone who has a nine to five of the idea, the options that I think we see for ourselves is I have this job that I hate, or I am destitute. That's it. 

[00:44:30] Ivana: That's all I can do. I will admit, I  

[00:44:34] Tami: will admit, I will admit, especially if you wait too long, it does feel very binary and it does feel like I have this shitty job or I'm destitute. That's, by the way, that's thought number one. Underneath that, thought number two is, Maybe I could get a different shitty job. 

[00:44:53] Tami: Or I don't know, maybe you could get a job that isn't shitty. Yeah. As someone who [00:45:00] has changed their career three times, not my job, three times people, my career three times, I will stand on this mountain and say it was worth every bit of discomfort so that I could, for the last 10 years, I have woken up and thought, Shut up. 

[00:45:22] Tami: I get to do this. People pay me to talk, right? Like people pay me to talk. I thought being a teacher was awesome. Now I'm sitting in my empty house talking. It's better for me as an introvert to do that than go to a room where I got to compete with other little children's and them wanting to also talk, right? 

[00:45:44] Tami: And so. It's scary to make change.  

[00:45:47] Ivana: Yes, it is. 100%. It very much is, but it's worth it. You've done scary things. Yes. It is worth it. And you've done it before and you can do it again. And you can always go [00:46:00] back. I don't know. Like that I think is what keeps me going is my life could go to shit here in Mexico. 

[00:46:05] Ivana: Okay. I'll move back to Colorado. I'll live with my mom for a little bit. I'll go get a job. Like it's not what I want to do.  

[00:46:12] Tami: Raise your hand if, raise your hand if your California teaching credential is fully up to date. No, I haven't been in a classroom since 2011. Yeah. Well, I could get a teaching job. 

[00:46:28] Tami: Apparently there's a teaching shortage, but I'm like, no thanks. I'm good. But I could. Yes. Right? So because we have options. And the other thing I just want to put this because some people are like, Oh, look at the coaches. They're talking to themselves. Yes. You're right. We are. And here's why. Because we used to have lives that were not custom made for us. 

[00:46:51] Tami: And when people meet me now, they're like, Oh my God, your job is perfect for you. I'm like, I know because I [00:47:00] made it for myself. A lot of trial and error. Some retraining, some stupid luck, but a lot of like small decisions every day. And a shit ton of like you can do this. A lot of pep talks, a lot of pep talks from friends and coaches help me get where I am. 

[00:47:22] Tami: So if you are somebody who is like, I want a 10 out of 10 life, I want to like figure out what life I was actually put on earth to live. Really reach out to either one of us and throw a question at us because we can be like, Oh yeah, I know somebody who did that or I know somebody who did that. Also your Google fingers. 

[00:47:46] Tami: nimble, right? So if somebody wants to live abroad, hello, it's me. You put in what are the residency requirements for X by Z place? Okay. Oh, Ivana, I could talk to you [00:48:00] honestly forever. Thank you for being here. Everyone. You can find Ivana Robinson. com for all information about coaching with her, her retreats, her story. 

[00:48:12] Tami: And now we're going to dive in to the quick fire actor studio style questions, which are never fast, but damn it. We're doing it today. Ivana.  

[00:48:24] Ivana: I'm ready. What's your  

[00:48:25] Tami: Enneagram?  

[00:48:26] Ivana: I'm eight. The challenger. The challenger.  

[00:48:31] Tami: I have to say this. I'm going to say it out loud. Apes are fucking scary if they are not taking care of themselves. 

[00:48:38] Tami: So thank you. The whole world thanks you for taking care of your shit. Because I'm just going to tell you guys, if you go and you look up famous apes, you'll be like all the dictators in the world. Holy shit. We kind of like to be in control. Right. So, and it's like that use your power for good or evil situation.[00:49:00]  

[00:49:00] Tami: But I've been telling you what, female eights are the shit. Love them. I actually thought I was an eight for a long time and my therapist laughed. She's like, girl, your inner critic is way too loud. I'm a one. Are you an introvert, extrovert, or an ambivert? I'm an introvert.  

[00:49:17] Ivana: Me too.  

[00:49:18] Tami: Are you an INFJ?  

[00:49:20] Ivana: I S T J. 

[00:49:24] Tami: So what does that S mean?  

[00:49:26] Ivana: Sensing.  

[00:49:27] Tami: Okay. Okay. So we're close. Yeah. We're close. That introvert thing is a killer. When did you learn that you were an introvert? Cause I didn't learn about it until I read that. I saw Susan Cain, her Ted talk. So she wrote the quiet. I was like, this is a thing. I just thought. 

[00:49:46] Tami: I was very happy when plans got canceled. Like I, and I felt bad for being really happy when plans got canceled. How did you figure out you were an introvert? Like, that's a  

[00:49:55] Ivana: great question. I, so I have older siblings, but I [00:50:00] kind of, there's a large age gap. So I spent a lot of time by myself. I'm just my own favorite person. 

[00:50:06] Ivana: And I think it was, it was sort of that of like, y'all are great, but you're not better than just me. So I'm gonna go do that.  

[00:50:16] Tami: I would like a t shirt that says, I am my own favorite person. It's like, if you can't beat the company that is here, people, I must spend time with you.  

[00:50:27] Ivana: And I think it's in my consulting job was learning that like, I was not a pleasure to be around if I did not spend enough time by myself. 

[00:50:38] Ivana: Like that I think was really it of I'm great with clients, with people in the group setting when I have had enough time to recharge, but if I didn't, I was very short tempered, like I just was not nice. And so that, that I have to learn because people would say I'm an extrovert, they're like, you're so great. 

[00:50:59] Ivana: And I'm like, [00:51:00] it took a lot of work to get here.  

[00:51:02] Tami: It's going to take a lot of work to recover from this. And if you don't shut up, you're also going to have to recover from this because apparently Some people, one time a principal that I had said I sucked the joy out of a room, 

[00:51:15] Tami: a room of nine year olds. I was like, you think that's a sick burn and you think I don't know that? My god, I just thought I was hiding it better. Yeah. Of course I know that I'm on the edge. They won't stop talking.  

[00:51:28] Ivana: Yes. 

[00:51:29] Tami: Okay, are you an upholder, a questioner, an obliger, or a rebel?  

[00:51:33] Ivana: I'm a rebel.  

[00:51:34] Tami: I'm a rebel. 

[00:51:36] Tami: I love rebels because they are the people who are like, when they decide. To take on the identity of the thing. They're like, what is this fucking hard? But if they don't take on the identity, they're like, yeah, you're not the boss of me.  

[00:51:55] Ivana: Yeah. Don't the minute you tell me what to do, I'm not doing it. Even if I was about to do it, even if [00:52:00] it's for my own good, it's because you told me to do it. 

[00:52:03] Ivana: I can't do it now.  

[00:52:04] Tami: Yeah, exactly. I love that. Okay. I am always trying to dig around in people's cupboards and in their purses and in their brains to find out things because systems don't come easy to me. So I'm on a quest to find out what are people automating? Eliminate and delegating from either your household, your business, your minds. 

[00:52:26] Tami: I don't care. Tell me, give me your secrets.  

[00:52:29] Ivana: Yeah delegating is easy. We have a housekeeper. I live, I live with a roommate, my friend and business partner, actually. And so we have a housekeeper because I don't care enough to do the cleaning, but I want to live in a clean space. 

[00:52:46] Tami: So good. So good.  

[00:52:47] Ivana: Are there things  

[00:52:47] Tami: that you, that you automate in your life or your business? 

[00:52:52] Ivana: I would say the, the, the money part of like, I want to make it easy for people to pay me to [00:53:00] contact me. That part, I'm all about finding a system, a tool. to do that so that I don't have to be on, in charge of that. 

[00:53:10] Tami: Also, I, I've also figured out like once I automate things, then I'm like, that's it. I don't have to do it again. I mean, it's like, I'll check in if somebody says this didn't work, but I'm like, Oh, somebody just took work off my plate. And that somebody is a machine. I love this. Yes. Okay. Anything that you're just like, yeah, I don't do that. 

[00:53:29] Ivana: I'm picking up clothes off the floor. 

[00:53:32] Tami: Yeah. I mean, you're like, we have a system.  

[00:53:34] Ivana: Yeah I'm very much, I get undressed where and when I feel like it. This is a little different now that I share space with another human, so that's usually not the living room. Although when I lived by myself it was. And so, my system at the time was I had, essentially hampers, I had baskets. 

[00:53:52] Ivana: One in the living room, like one in the office. So I could at least give the semblance of like, this place is clean and tidy, [00:54:00] but like, And if I  

[00:54:01] Tami: need a sweater, it's in a basket. It's in a basket. You just got to find which basket it's in. Yes. So you actually, you, you know what you did with that? You eliminated clutter by putting a basket there. 

[00:54:13] Ivana: Yes.  

[00:54:14] Tami: So smart. Okay. What was the book that you've been read most recently that you're like, holy shit, everybody needs to read this.  

[00:54:23] Ivana: Love this question. It is creep. by Miriam Gorba. It is a book of essays about it's, it's like essays. It's a memoir. And she's, how do I even say this? She is like exploring essentially, The, the, the creep of oppression and misogyny, both as it pertains to like the individual and how we create that as well as like the structures and the systems that are creating creeps and creeping into our lives and creating very terrible situations. 

[00:54:54] Ivana: And it was, it was very excellent.  

[00:54:58] Tami: I've got to go put that on my [00:55:00] list.  

[00:55:00] Ivana: If you are an audio book person, I, she reads it herself and I do recommend.  

[00:55:05] Tami: Okay. What's the, what's the author's name again? Miriam,  

[00:55:08] Ivana: M Y R I A M, last name Gorba, G U R B A.  

[00:55:14] Tami: Ooh, y'all, the subtitle, dang it, where'd it go? Accusations and Confessions. 

[00:55:22] Ivana: Yes.  

[00:55:22] Tami: Okay, well guess what? That seems like a very fall book. Okay, what is your favorite personal development book? Because I'm gonna ask you what your favorite book of all time is in a minute, but personal development, and that can be Any book that has changed your thoughts or your behavior?  

[00:55:40] Ivana: That is so easy. 

[00:55:42] Ivana: It is How We Show Up by Mia Birdsong. Have you heard of it?  

[00:55:46] Tami: No. Tell us more. Oh,  

[00:55:47] Ivana: this is a definitely a book for you, Tammy. Okay. I, I'm already, I'm like, let me write that down. She talks about how the American dream and the focus on the nuclear family makes life really hard and is [00:56:00] not. How we're supposed to function. 

[00:56:02] Ivana: And so how do we go about intentionally building community that works for us and the lives that we need? So for example, I am unmarried and I don't have kids. And as many people, like I don't live where my family lives. Right. And so I have to be a little more intentional about being, Hey, will you be my emergency contact? 

[00:56:24] Ivana: Hey, you know, here's where the important documents are. should something happen to me or having people with kids and being like, Hey, can I be your kids auntie? Like, can I help out in this way? Because we are in a place where we don't necessarily speak the language as well as we would like to yet, or know as many people. 

[00:56:46] Ivana: So how do you build that community?  

[00:56:48] Tami: Okay. Also, like so many people struggle with friendship. I'm on lots of moms, like I'm on lots of mom, like online communities and people like, I'm so lonely how people [00:57:00] make friends. Okay. This book is called how we show up reclaiming family, friendship, and community. And it's an invitation to community and models for connection. 

[00:57:10] Tami: Y'all, this is the thing. Most of us make friends. based on proximity, right? You are friends with your friends because they sat next to you in elementary school. You are friends with your friends because they were on the swim team with you. You're friends with your friends because they were in your sorority. 

[00:57:28] Tami: Good lord. This is why a lot of us don't like our friends because we didn't even pick Where we were in the world, when we were plunked down, where our grandparents or parents placed us. And like, this is about creating intentional relationships. Mike, well, you know what? I'm going to read this too. Okay, so we now, we have latest book, Creep. 

[00:57:53] Tami: Now we have how we show up. Okay, Ivana, now tell us about your favorite book of all time. [00:58:00] I'll just go ahead and get my Google fingers out. Yeah.  

[00:58:02] Ivana: My favorite book of all time is Their Eyes Were Watching God by Zora Neale Hurston.  

[00:58:08] Tami: Tell us how you first came to read that book.  

[00:58:11] Ivana: So I read it. It was assigned to me in high school. 

[00:58:15] Ivana: I don't know that I, I don't know that I fully got it then. I had also seen the movie, because Oprah, Halle Berry, they made a movie in like 2005, maybe. But it wasn't until it was assigned in a college course that was about, you know, reading race and literature and all of that, that I really, connected with it and really understood Janie's story. 

[00:58:37] Ivana: Because Janie always chooses Janie, but that looks very different depending on her level of agency, whether that be her youth, whether that be money, like her, her situations and circumstances change, but the base level is she is always [00:59:00] choosing herself. In some form or fashion,  

[00:59:04] Tami: I find that fascinating because from what I gather you growing up and going to school in Colorado in the going to school in the nice neighborhood that most of your classmates were white and so you had a teacher assign a black female author to be read by this sea of white kids. 

[00:59:22] Ivana: Well, at that time, I, my high school was more racially diverse.  

[00:59:26] Tami: Okay. Elementary, middle  

[00:59:27] Ivana: school, it was me, but high school was more racially diverse. And so I did, but I did, it's very fortunate that I had a teacher who did have a fairly diverse reading curriculum.  

[00:59:40] Tami: Absolutely. I, I also I'm stunned. I'm a lot older than you and I'll just tell you we were not reading black female authors when I was in high school, even though my sophomore year of high school, I had a black female teacher. 

[00:59:56] Tami: She still, I think it was like, she's like, why did teach? [01:00:00] What's I like? I got to teach catcher on the ride. Right. I got to teach. It's like I got to teach all of these white kids these books that they're going to read again and again. Anyway, thank you Gladys Chance for being there and knowing that we could have black female teachers, but still okay. 

[01:00:19] Tami: Those are really good books, by the way. Where do you like to hang out online? What's your favorite social media channel?  

[01:00:24] Ivana: Instagram.  

[01:00:26] Tami: Okay. Where can people find you on Instagram?  

[01:00:28] Ivana: At Ivana run the world. on Instagram because aspiring jet setter ate Enneagram.  

[01:00:38] Tami: Love it. What's your favorite TV show past or present or both? 

[01:00:43] Tami: Or do you have one like in your head that you're like, I'm writing it?  

[01:00:46] Ivana: I know I'm not. I'm not there. I'm exploring writing and genres, but so we'll see. So past is a different world. I was like obsessed with going to college. 

[01:00:58] Tami: I was [01:01:00] obsessed with going to Hillman. Yes. I wanted to be the white girl at Hillman. 

[01:01:04] Tami: Yes. Okay. So how old were you when a different world came out?  

[01:01:08] Ivana: I was not alive when a different world came out. I was watching it in syndication. Sorry. It's  

[01:01:14] Tami: all right. I mean, just the reality is I watched it the first run  

[01:01:20] Ivana: live. I was born in 91. I think it ended in 93, but I do think that is something of the time when you had cable and so you just kind of watched what was on and that is how you discover things as opposed to the algorithm just feeding you things. 

[01:01:37] Ivana: that are the same because you liked it. Once you kind of got to explore a different array of media.  

[01:01:44] Tami: Okay. What was it about, well, first I now thinking, oh my God, there's people that have no idea what we're talking about. A different world was an offshoot of the Cosby show. And it was the oldest daughter, Denise.[01:02:00]  

[01:02:00] Ivana: She wasn't, no, because technically Sondra's older.  

[01:02:03] Tami: That's right! That's right! So they had a daughter that they hardly ever talked about, who was married to the guy who was very benign, and then it was Lisa Bonet's character, and she went to college, and it was based on an HB A generic  

[01:02:20] Ivana: HBCU, yeah. Yeah. 

[01:02:22] Ivana: Experience, it was the alma mater of, you know, Both Claire and Cliff as well but yeah, season one is not very good. It's, it's, it's not very good. Two through six, that's, that's where the genius happened. They, they got Debbie Allen involved.  

[01:02:40] Tami: Right. Okay. So what was it about seeing that show that you were like, this is it. 

[01:02:44] Tami: I'm just staking the ground on this one.  

[01:02:47] Ivana: Honestly it was, they were black people in college and it seemed fun. I was obsessed with going to college because, you I did not necessarily love Colorado. It was not my place. It is still not really my place. And college to me [01:03:00] was going to be my out. Like I was good at school. 

[01:03:02] Ivana: This is the thing that was going to get me to somewhere that is not Colorado. And so I was obsessed with just the idea of going to college. And so getting to watch kids in college live this great life that in my mind was going to be what I, what my college experience was going to be. I was all in.  

[01:03:18] Tami: Yeah, I loved it because. 

[01:03:20] Tami: It showed young friendship, young adult friendship.  

[01:03:26] Ivana: Yes.  

[01:03:28] Tami: In very real  

[01:03:28] Ivana: way.  

[01:03:29] Tami: In very real, like people got mad at each other, they did dumb stuff to each other. But ultimately, they were all still young but learning together. Yeah. I loved it too. All right, now this is the question everybody waits for and also why I get to emerge every single episode explicit. 

[01:03:50] Tami: You're welcome, everyone. Ivana, what is your favorite swear word?  

[01:03:54] Ivana: Motherfucker.  

[01:03:56] Tami: That is so funny. That's the same as Madam VP slash hopefully [01:04:00] number 47 president of the United States. That's such a good one. It is a good one. You know, like  

[01:04:04] Ivana: just fuck in all the forms, I think because it's so versatile. 

[01:04:07] Ivana: I'm like, it's a noun. It's a verb. It's so versatile. Just an expletive. Like we could, we could do a lot with it.  

[01:04:13] Tami: 100. It is 100 percent my favorite. Thank you again for spending this time with me. I'm so glad that we got to connect. You're amazing. I look at your life and I'm like, yes, 10 out of 10. Well done. 

[01:04:26] Tami: Yeah, because you're also making me realize 

[01:04:28] Tami: I want to live abroad everyone. I'm just gonna say it, but I haven't Taken that step.  

[01:04:34] Ivana: Yeah,  

[01:04:35] Tami: but I also know based on my own experience that my life isn't over That change is always available and it doesn't mean I have to live abroad forever What if I took a month and went somewhere? What if I took a summer? 

[01:04:51] Tami: And went somewhere because that's the other thing, everyone, you don't have to try on your dream life [01:05:00] forever. You could just simply take a month off work, somebody, you could take a time off work and work on your side hustle for a month. Without the constraints of work. Recently, somebody said, I'm going to quit my job so that I can devote myself to my side hustle full time because I simply don't have the time. 

[01:05:19] Tami: I was like, ma'am, I would just like to tell you about that time that my husband for 26 years said, because he's a teacher this summer, I'm going to clean the basement. I'm just going to tell you for 26 summers, he hasn't quote had time. He doesn't want to clean the basement. So I did it last year.  

[01:05:38] Ivana: Yeah.  

[01:05:38] Tami: He felt better that that he could finally cross that off the big to do list in the sky. 

[01:05:43] Ivana: Then he didn't have to do it.  

[01:05:45] Tami: He didn't have to do it. The point is is we can take a little bit of time and try things on.  

[01:05:51] Ivana: Yes.  

[01:05:52] Tami: Just to see. Like  

[01:05:53] Ivana: particularly if you are someone with a U S passport, there is a lot of privilege with that. And that you can go to a lot of places. [01:06:00] It's visa free for 90 to 180 days,  

[01:06:05] Tami: which by the way, is three to six months. 

[01:06:08] Tami: Yeah. And you know, and maybe you don't even want to live outside the States. Maybe you just want to go to a different state or a different city. Yes. Take a little sabbatical. Take an extended, take a three week vacation instead of a three day weekend.  

[01:06:25] Ivana: Yeah, that's the thing is it's going to take time for you to try on something new. 

[01:06:30] Ivana: So that whole, like, I'm just going to take a couple days off here and there. Not to say that is not useful sometimes, but in order for you to really recharge and rejuvenate, you need like a solid day off.  

[01:06:42] Tami: Absolutely. And I'm also thinking about all those people that have moved to the Pacific Northwest because they spent a long weekend in the Pacific Northwest in July. 

[01:06:52] Tami: And you're like, ma'am, it is not like here, but it's not like this all the time. Everybody's high on the air and the light, [01:07:00] but come back in November. And see if you still want to live here.  

[01:07:04] Ivana: Yeah. Yeah. Vacation versus living are very different. Very different. Giving yourself the time to experience all of that. 

[01:07:13] Tami: Exactly. Ivana, thank you so much. You're the best. Cannot wait to keep connecting and see what you do next. All right, everybody go find Ivana. on the internet. If I don't want to run the world on Instagram, Ivana Robinson dot com, where you can find out about how you can work with her. Find out about her retreats, which sound amazing. 

[01:07:37] Ivana: Reclaim your identity, your happiness and your peace.  

[01:07:41] Tami: Dang, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go do the little searchy search. Until next week everybody, remember that you matter too.