This week’s episode is all about storytelling and using video to tell those stories effectively with Haley Everheart.

I interviewed Haley, a queer femme CEO, content creator, and creative strategist based in Oakland, California this summer. She has been using the internet and digital storytelling tools to build community and create social change for more than 15 years. Haley’s company Everheart Creative helps small businesses and mission-driven progressive nonprofit organizations get their messages out into the world.

We talk about getting more comfortable on video, talking to the camera and sitting in the discomfort of being new at something. We talk about angles, lighting and wardrobe and how thankful we are that there are people who can help with all of it.

Haley is a mama who loves to tend to her garden, finding gratitude and joy in creating and sharing home work with partners and kids and has integrated self-care into all aspects of her daily work and home life.

We talk about working during our prime energy zone and the joy of research and a spreadsheet.

 

Tami: Good morning, Hailey. Good 

Hayley: morning. 

Tami: I’m so happy to have you here on the podcast friends. Haley’s a powerhouse. So I want to hear all about what she does. So let’s start here. Haley, who are you and what do you do in the world? 

Hayley: Well, thanks for having me. I am a professional storyteller. So what that means is I, craft stories and I help other people craft 

Tami: stories.

Hayley: And I realized about 10 years ago that I. You live in this day and age, which I do. and you want to tell stories that it’s best to at least learn how to use video. and so I became a filmmaker. So now I create videos for all sorts of clients, primarily mission driven companies and progressive nonprofits and organizations.

And I also help, movement folks, organizers, small business owners, et cetera, up there, DIY content game. 

Tami: I have to say. About a decade ago, I was doing a training. I was doing a training at a yoga teacher training. I have, I’m a yoga teacher and I was on the staff do. And one of the people said, Oh my God, you’re so funny.

You should do video. And I record in absolute horror. I was like, Oh my God, what are you talking about? He’s I think you’re like the next Renee Brown, which by the way, I have to bring up Renee Brown in every episode. So I just like to drop that there really fast. And I was like, she’s so fantastic.

That’s You just gave me the compliment of the highest order and Oh my God, I can’t think of anything I want to do less than be on video times have changed my friend. So I know a bunch of people just got super sweaty in their armpits. Can you, this is a, I did not prep this question, but can you tell us a little bit, like how do people become more comfortable getting on video?

For their business or for their life or for whatever message they’re sending. How do you help with people doing that part or you just do the video production part? 

Hayley: All of it. And I think that’s a great question. And I will say that growing up, I was a theater kid. I was in performance. And for a long time, I thought I only want to be in front of the camera.

I come from a long line of storytellers. My parents are also filmmakers and I said, I never want to be behind the camera. That’s boring. You know, I would want to be on camera. And then I grew up. And I realized that the person in front of the camera generally has the least power and that you have the most power when you’re behind in the camera.

And then I thought, Oh no, I want to be behind that camera. That being said, that has really changed in this current moment because. We can be both in front of the camera and in control of our own content, because most of us now have high definition, video cameras in our pockets, which is incredible. And I think video is such a powerful way to communicate with your audience no matter who you’re trying to serve, or, you know, what you’re trying to offer or sell.

And I think the biggest thing in being comfortable is just doing it. You know, 

Tami: just 

Hayley: trying it like the first time I, you know, I made my career, I was behind the camera and then my sister kept saying, you’ve got to do a YouTube series. You’ve gotta do a YouTube series. And I was like, I’m too old.

I don’t know what you’re talking about. and I don’t need to be on camera. And I like the first time I sat down to record the first, like 15 minutes of me recording were just me being like. I 

Tami: feel 

Hayley: really. Awkward. Okay. I feel awkward. Still be a little awkward talking to myself like, you know, so I think embracing the feeling of awkwardness and I have always been a firm believer that if something scares you, that’s like a good direction to go in, because it means that there’s like steaks there.

It means that there’s something important. and that means it’s interesting and worth. Doing, you know, so I think it’s like most things it’s not about Feeling totally comfortable. And it’s not about not being scared. It’s about just doing it anyway. And just sitting with your own discomfort and being like, I’m not going to wait until I feel comfortable.

I’m not going to wait until I feel fearless. Like that moment is never going to come. Like I’m going to feel weird. I’m going to be sort of embarrassed. I’m going to worry that no one cares about what I have to say and I’m going to do it anyway. 

Tami: And I have felt all of those, both video and starting a podcast.

I wanted to start a podcast. I don’t know, eight years ago I paused because I was like, but I don’t know the technology. And I now know that was a line of bullshit because, I can hire somebody to do the test. And then once I hired somebody to do the tech part, then I was like, Oh shit, I have a cork in my throat.

I can’t talk. And then I did this whole rigmarole and I actually worked with a coach. I call her my word excavator. I said, please ask me what I think about these things. And she’s I’ve heard you talk about these things for years. Of course you have something to say on the topic, but I was like, no, I need you to ask me and then can you write it down?

I’m going to cut up vegetables. Like I have to sneak up on myself to get my words out. So one of the things that super helped me was realizing that there is a, there’s a coach and a teacher for everything. So if you don’t like how you look on video, Work with somebody on your style, work with somebody on your angles, work with somebody on your lighting, work with experiment, go to YouTube.

I mean, talk about new to YouTube and buy new to YouTube. I mean, I didn’t realize like there was a video for everything, but there’s like how to, there’s a woman she’s like in her fifties and she’s I will teach older women how to look good on video. These are the things you need to look for.

And I was like, what a gift? You are person. I can’t remember your name, but it was like, wow, lighting super matters and angles super matter. Cause I’m telling you, we both like really good. We’re doing this on zoom. We can see each other’s faces, but I know you can’t see us, but we both look really good on zoom right now, but I also have a setup.

Like my camera is always lifted up. Like I noticed the background I got my face is in a window right now. And later this afternoon, I’ll sit on the other side of my desk. Cause the sun will be over here. Like it’s a thing, but boy, am I glad there are teachers and people who are professionals that are like, you can totally do this and you can look good and you can get your message out, but you might not do it by yourself.

How do you tell me about the people who you help tell their stories with their faces in their words? So how did, how do you work with people? So 

Hayley: I love everything you just said, and I think it’s all so true. and I think one of the things I think a lot about is that the tools have really been democratized, but not the skills as much.

Exactly what you’re saying. Like we might have access to the equipment and the editing, but we still might not know how to do it or how to do it well, but. Are so many good teachers out there. and when I work with clients, if I’m doing, you know, full service, video production, I mean, first of all, I approach every relationship.

Like I approach every relationship, I think, to a degree like there’s that period of mutual attraction, you know, whether that comes from a referral or someone coming to my website or me hearing about their project or event and us sort of taking a minute to get to know each other, What are you about?

Where’s the resonance, where’s the alignment and feeling into what that relationship might be, what each of our needs are, you know, in the relationship like, okay, you know, this might be as basic as like this company needs this mission video or, Oh, this nonprofit has. Fundraising event and they need to, you know, raise a lot of money and how can I help them tell their story and really thinking about, you know, what are the needs?

And is there that sort of like mutual alignment that we feel like we can work together in a great way. And then I really spend a lot of time getting to no, my clients. story and their needs, you know, let’s hear about you, who are you speaking to? Who is your audience? You know, if you’re selling something like what happens when people buy?

what happens when people don’t buy? what’s going on? They’re like, these are the things that I want to address and the stories that we’re telling for you, you know, who, what lights you up, you know, and how can we take I’m often working with Big thinkers and visionaries. And like, how can we take this big mission that you have and distill it down into something that’s going to be 90 seconds or three minutes, and is going to resonate with your key audience and also people who are maybe newer to you.

So like how can we be communicating on these multiple levels, to be really strategic and then, you know, moving into the filming. Now it’s a lot of virtual filming. Before it was in person, but it’s sort of the same. It’s like doing interviews, making people like a huge part of my job is just making people feel comfortable on camera.

Like it’s funny. It would 

Tami: be a huge part of my job is just making people feel comfortable. 

Hayley: And, you know, I really, identify with like my caretaking and my femininity in that way. I enjoy the emotional labor of my business. I mean, I want to get paid for it, so get me wrong. But but I love it.

I really delight in that feeling of being able to sit with someone and I think. As you well know, I don’t have to tell you this in your job, but like listening to someone else is such a gift. Like being able to be present with someone else’s experience and everyone that I believe that at least everyone is like more interesting.

The more you get to know them, like there’s no one that I can’t like connect with and just deepen and learn about. And so being able to have that experience of like deeply listening to people and then. Sort of, I see my work as responding to the information they’re giving me. So like taking the core points and then showing it back to them in a way that shines a spotlight and really lights them up.

So they get to see it. And they kind of the experiences like, Oh my gosh, like 

Tami: I am, or we 

Hayley: are doing this amazing work in the world. and now we get to do more of it. that’s kind of the experience that I really see like happening, you know, with my clients. 

Tami: I’m gonna have to book a consult cause I’m sold.

I’m like, yes, I would like that. So cool. So we just do a little business here, guys. You’re welcome. But I’m telling you, I met Hayley in a court, in a coaching program that we’re both participants in and I was like, I want to sit by her she’s effervescent. And she does a thing that I don’t know how to do.

And she’s delightful. So I need to get to know her better. So you’re welcome. So now all of my listeners are going to be like, what you can do video who’s this angel straight from heaven that can make this thing that I think is impossible possible. 

Hayley: Yeah. 

Tami: Right. Okay. So if you don’t yet follow Haley on social media, you should.

So Hailey. Where can people find you on Instagram specifically? Because I watch your stories and I’m like, girl, shut up. I want to come over. I’m gonna invite myself over to your house for some delicious food and some conversation. So tell us first where we can find your stories. And then let’s talk about self care, because that was another thing as I started following you on social media.

And I was like, somebody got the self care deck. D dialed, like she’s got it all. So I want to know more about it, but where can people find you? So they can be like, Oh, this is how you live that self care business. So where are you on Instagram? 

Hayley: So you can find me on Instagram at queer underscore mamma.

That’s my personal page and where I do most of my Grammy. You can also find my video production business at Everhart creative, and that’s ever hurt like your heart muscle, H E a R T creative. so you can find me there and that’s Instagram is where I’m most active these days. 

Tami: Cool. Okay. So how does self care.

And we were laughing before we started recording about how self care isn’t bass and manicures and all that stuff. But we both like those things. So how does self care affect your work in your business and in the world? 

Hayley: So I feel like I’ve gotten to a place, you know, in this, I don’t think was always true, but self care is such an integrated part of my life.

Now, like when I was reflecting on your questions before our conversation, thinking about what I wanted to say, I was like, Oh, I feel like. Every element of my life is self care. Like my work is self care. Like I get so much energy from working with clients. Like I am the lit up. Like I like when I have these long days, like I feel lit up by it.

I feel so deeply. I feel so deeply in alignment with my own life. And that’s something that I really worked for, you know, and I think. Yeah. So self care has become so integrated. Like it’s in my work, it’s in my love relationship, it’s in my parenting. And then of course I also have the things that, you know, aren’t necessarily as you know, productive.

but also bring me a lot of joy, like my garden and like writing and maintaining my relationships with my family and friends and you know, some of those other practices, but it, yeah, it really. It’s all a part of the ecosystem for me now. 

Tami: Oh, I love that idea of it. Self care, being an ecosystem.

And I agree it’s taken me like a really long time to integrate self care into every aspect of my work and my parenting and relationship and just how I live my 24 hours every day that I’m like what part of my life? Isn’t self care. Right. Like sometimes self care is, is having uncomfortable conversations.

I’ve been having a lot of uncomfortable conversations lately and I’m like, woo. But boy, like I am tired. I feel like I have an uncomfortable conversation hangover. And yet the discomfort of carrying that with me. Would permeate every part of my life that I’m like, Nope, I’d rather have the temporary discomfort of having that uncomfortable conversation.

And this is coming from somebody who has been notoriously, conflict avoidant. Like I feel like girl, you are having some growth in this regard, but it is so integrated now that I’m like, I can’t not say something. Yeah. That’s a little bit of self care. Okay. Again, I watch you on your stories. I’m like, who, what kind of magical family did you grow up in?

So I’m going to ask you about your growing up. So what did you learn about self care growing up? And I think you’re a millennial, correct. Okay. So I think so I’m gen X. And so there has been a shift, but I’m curious to see how self care was talked about in your family and in your generation. 

Hayley: So I think I got some conflicting messages growing up, like many of us.

I definitely got the counter example of the martyred working. Mother who was, you know, always doing too much for everyone and always burned out and resentful, you know, in a lot of ways. and I really saw that as a path that I did not want to follow 

Tami: me too. 

Hayley: I was like, 

Tami: I know I was like, no, thank you.

I’m good.

Hayley: Yeah. But then I also had a home where there was a lot of joy and connection with each other and you know, my parents are both really into gardening and they’re really into cooking and like being. Wait with friends. And so I saw some of these like sort of homemaking kind of elements, be a part of self care too.

You know, like my dad cooking 

Tami: done in community in, in partnership, self care or homemaking activities can be, but when it’s one person doing everything, that’s where it’s like, Ooh, that doesn’t look like fun, but it being split. 

Hayley: Yep. But you know, I think a lot of my. My lessons were more like, Oh, I don’t know like how to avoid that, but that is not going to work for me because it just doesn’t seem good for anyone.

Tami: Did you grow up in the Bay area? I 

Hayley: grew up on the East coast, actually. I grew up in DC. 

Tami: Oh, interesting. 

Hayley: What brought you to the Bay area? Well, I went to school in North Carolina college in North Carolina, and I loved it there, but I realized that I wanted to move to a big city for a while. I wanted to move to a big city with a lot of queer people where the weather was pretty decent, where I didn’t have to drive a lot.

These are like three main criteria 

Tami: check. 

Hayley: And then I was like, all right, the Bay areas, he was reasonable. and then I got here and I was like, Oh, yeah, this is home. I’m never leaving. Like I just, I feel like totally at home here. 

Tami: It’s funny. I actually grew up in the Bay area, spent a brief time in DC and was like, Are you high?

Like I could not have gotten home fast enough. And then I did a little stint in Portland and was like, yeah, if you guys could fix the light issue here, it’s too dark. And I drink too much. Like I’m super depressed. I got to go back home. 

Hayley: Like I need sunshine. I 

Tami: need sunshine. I, it turns out I’m a sunflower.

and, I’m in Sacramento, I feel like I’m just Bay area adjacent. 

Hayley: People from the East coast, asked me what I love about the bear and why. I know I’m never going back to DC. The thing I like to say is that In the Bay area, people are so like unabashedly weird and they’re just like doing their thing, like hard, like whatever it is.

And there’s just like an antique uniformity element here that just really works for me. 

Tami: One of the things. So I grew up in Richmond and I did a lot of time in Berkeley and Oakland, like with friends and work. And my mom worked in Oakland and Berkeley, and I remember being a teenager. And I was a nanny and I would drive around Berkeley and then you’d do whatever.

And I remember seeing women who were like perfectly suited up in you know, they’re at work, but they just had on, there wasn’t the, like I’m gonna change into my working girl sneakers to take Bart. They were just like, I’m wearing ugly, comfortable shoes because fuck you. I don’t know. We’re not going to do weird foot things for everyone.

Else’s comfort. Like I’m going to keep my own comfort. And I was like, I like the sensible shoe gals. I am a sensible shoe gal era. And I like it. I like people, like it’s a thing. The, I love the, there is a, a thread of non-conformity in the Bay area that makes my heart swell with of course we’re non-conformance because conformity is constraining and conformity is, it’s meant to shut you up.

I wasn’t born to. Be quiet, especially about injustice. There you go. Okay. So what are some of your, self care practices that you practice as a grownup? 

Hayley: So I have a whole array depending on what my needs are. I love to garden, like when I’m super stressed, like there is nothing better than just like getting my hands in the dirt, like growing things.

you know, if I just get outside being in the sun, being with plants like that to me is just. Just really lights me up. I think gardening is this beautiful way to look at existence. There’s like death in life and like planning, but also like total unpredictability and loss of control in any way.

Everything is for me there in gardening. so that’s a big one for me. And just being in the sun, soaking in buckets of water in my yard, like this being, if I have a really busy day, like I’ll just go outside for Five minutes and be in a Sunbeam. And that’s like really great recharge. I’m definitely a sunflower like you are.

I also meditate from time to time. I really love mindfulness practices. gratitude is like one of my primary go tos. It’s just like, All day, every day, all the gratitude in every way. And that is just a really big standby for me. I’m connecting with my people, especially my sister, who’s my best friend.

I talk to her all the time. and. Also, I asked my partner, I was like, what do I do for self care? Cause I feel like it’s just you know, and he was like, you make spreadsheets, you do lots of research. And I was like, Oh yeah, totally. You know, like it’s very comforting. 

Tami: Like I, I felt I learned some things and that I wrote them down.

I kept him in a safe place. Cause I might need those later. 

Hayley: Yup. And I love to write, I’m a, you know, I’m a journaler and a memoirist and, yeah, those are my big things, 

Tami: you know, so I am a big gratitude person also. And it’s stuff that I’ve been saying lately. Go, I wish I had 39 year old me. Cause it was right when I was becoming a mother and turning 40 and all that everything.

I was just like, Oh, Everything that wasn’t working for me before I’m done. And I took on gratitude as one of those practices. and I feel like it was so life changing internally, but it’s I don’t think anyone who has talked to me for more than five minutes is going to say, Oh, but you are blind.

there’s no blind optimism. And that’s one of the things I said earlier. I said, I’m going to stick to it and effervescent way of being in the world and how you present yourself. But I know that you, or deeply GRA gracious and deeply humbly full of gratitude, and you still see the world for what it is.

Hayley: Cause I think I really did appreciate that, 

Tami: but I think people get afraid. if I get too, if I get to gratitude, I’m going to forget all this stuff. It’s Oh no, don’t worry. It’s still there. And you still see it and you still feel it, but you also feel joy in a way that you can’t, unless you run after it with your hands, like I’m going to grab you.

Joy. I’m going to grab you good things, because like we’re genetically made up to notice the bad stuff. So please don’t use it. That’s going to go way, right? Yeah. But we have to practice that noticing the good stuff, muscle. 

Hayley: Yes. And, you know, I sat in a meeting the other day we were doing some check-in then I was like, I don’t know.

I think I’m just like relentless rejoiceful, but like you said, it doesn’t mean that there’s not a deep attunement with the other pieces. And I think that honestly, one of. The big parts of being a grownup is holding deeply onto contradictions. You know, like I feel like that’s just a thing that’s Oh, wow.

Like here I am with like deep grief and with deep gratitude or here I am in one of life’s hardest moments and. One of the most beautiful times. Like I can truly say that some of the hardest times of my life have also been some of the most beautiful and I hold those things and I sit with the contradictions, but I don’t necessarily try to make sense of them.

If that makes sense. They can just 

Tami: coexist. And it’s so I’m glad you said that because my mom died five years ago and it was, I will just say it is as gut wrenching as the sentence as my mom died is, and. I still practice gratitude every single day to, and including the day that she died, because my mom died.

I could also still see all of the wonderful things in my life on what would could be arguably like the worst day of your life. I was still like, this is the most delicious egg I’ve ever had. Friend who made me like literally five minutes after I found out my mom died, my friend fed me and I was like, I’m not hungry.

And she goes, well, that’s okay. You still have to eat. And I’m still going to feed you and your kid from the chickens, from my backyard, from the food that I grew, my, you love my friend, Candice, I’m just saying, but, and I was like, wow, this is big. And it was like, wow, life isn’t meant. To be easy or pleasurable, but it can be there’s practices that can make that happen.

Yes. Yeah. And they work. Do you actually write it down or do you think 

Hayley: it depends mostly. I just think it nowadays I have kept gratitude journals in the past and you know, sometimes we’ll do like gratitude practices at meals or, you know, but mostly, I just think it now. 

Tami: Yeah, I, we have a, we have gratitude practice at our house with our daughter.

And, and it is astonishing to me where people are like, how come your kid does this? I’m like, Oh, we practice gratitude literally daily. And is, she’s like particularly ungracious about something. I, my response to her as well, but what are you grateful for? She’ll go, Oh my God, how many do I have to do?

And I’m like, until one of us feels better. get your blessings on girlfriend because we’re not going to get stuck in everything sucks because that’s simply not true. 

Hayley: I had this profound moment with my daughter, who’s four going to be five and about a month, recently where she didn’t want to clear her plate.

Right. You know, and it’s hard to still cause she can barely carry like things about drop. you know, it’s high the thing, but you can do a lot around the house. You can fold laundry this and that. She was kind of giving me some attitude about I’m not going to clear my plate, you know? And I was like, well, you know, it’s really important.

And she’s all why. And I was like, well, it’s a way of expressing gratitude. Towards the meal. It’s a way of expressing gratitude to the person who prepared the meal for you, which, you know, in that case was me, or maybe it’s my partner. You know, it’s a way of expressing gratitude to the people who grew our food, brought it to us.

Like it’s a form of reverence basically. Right? It’s a way that we express to each other that we care about each other. Yeah. Network grateful. And she Walked away. And two minutes later, she like came over and started clearing the table, you know? And she’s like, all right. Yeah.

I’m gonna hit that track. 

Tami: Yeah. She’s Oh, that Trish she’s I saw the circle, you drew up this whole, like how the interconnected nature of how something starts as a seed. And that ends up on my plate. 

Hayley: And I only had, I, you mean, 

Tami: I only have to clean off the plate. Okay. Well, I guess I’ll do my part.

Yeah. And kids are into that, That idea of interconnectedness because they understand how connected they are with their caregivers. But as adults, we’re all connected to each other as well. Yeah. Even if we think that we’re not, we’re still connected, present these wacky things called mirror neurons, because what you like part of the reason, I feel like we’re, I feel like we’re kind of on the same wavelength in that I’m like, hi, you are giving me something that I’m like, yeah, I’m gonna smile because our brains are connected in that way.

Right. So the more, the more gratitude and the more reverence that you bring into your life, the more you. You get that back? 

Hayley: Yes. And the more you see, like you said, how, like you are always in collaboration with everything around you, you know, like back to the garden, I’m like, my plant is growing because of the sunshine and the water and the butterflies, like so many things are collaborating with us in every moment.

Tami: Right. And conversely, if everybody’s an asshole, but you, it might be, you. 

Hayley: Yes. Also true from toxic people. I’ve known. It’s at some 

Tami: point you gotta be like, there’s only one of us in common. It’s me. And I used to be that person. So I know this, I mean the only thing that saved me in my pre gratitude life as I am very funny.

And so people were like, ha. I was like, I know, but it was funny. It was like, it was a very sharp knife instead of a dull knife. But you got cut nonetheless. Sorry, not sorry, but that’s the thing like, what you get, what you give out, you get back and it’s not some, it’s not woo karma. It’s like science.

That’s how brains 

Hayley: work. Yes. 

Tami: Oh God. I love brain research that tells me the things that I have found out in my life. Thank you for figuring that out scientists. Okay. So where do you feel like your self care is going well? And what areas would you say would need more attention 

Hayley: if any. Okay. Well, I think one of the areas that I always think about is I really love to move my body joyfully, and that’s always kind of on my list of do more of, because I’m like, so in my brain and most of my work is in front of the computer.

Like many of us. and I’m very privileged and fortunate to have a like relatively at this point in time, it hasn’t always been true, but like a very mobile body that kind of behaves in the ways that I expect it to. but I always lend Oh, I want to get stronger and get more flexible.

And that is one of the things that kinda gets low on my priority list. But, you know, I do a lot of dishes. I walk around my kitchen. I like. I am in the garden. I have dance parties with my kid, but I’m probably never going to be like a regular exerciser. and again, that’s just about you know, I think it’s great to move our bodies.

Bodies are meant to move. It’s not, yeah, something I sort of feel shame about, but it’s one of those things that never makes it high on the list. 

Tami: What’s funny is again, after my mom died, the, ex I became a daily exerciser really easily because. My mom died at 69. I became a mom at 40 and I was like, Oh, I don’t want my, I don’t want to.

And my mom died of complications from diabetes, essentially, which can be, you know, a lot of lifestyle stuff can help in my family, blah, blah, blah. And so I don’t exercise for anything except internal. Like I exercise for my brain 

Hayley: exercise or 

Tami: for, I exercise for 80 year old me. 

Hayley: Yes. that’s what I wanna, that’s why I want to exercise a little more.

And when I was pregnant, I like exercise all the time because I felt like, because I knew it was good for the baby. So anyway, Ooh, 

Tami: that’s a good clue. Yeah, because you might have to think of future you as your like, motivation, like Oh yeah, because I feel like it’s human design flaw that we have to do all these things would have to have such a long like future me is going to love this.

But present me is this is dumb. 

Hayley: I could just keep working. 

Tami: I could just keep working or I could just keep sitting here, although. I, since the last couple of years I’ve been like, just kidding. I’m officially middle age. I just turned 50. And so I’m like, Oh my God, this is for real I’m in that age where they’re like, you have to stop screwing around, like 

Hayley: moving out here now 

Tami: feature arrived.

And you’re like, but I just don’t feel like past me. And they’re like, here’s your a colonoscopy. Wow. I didn’t anticipate that for some reason. Yeah. They’re like, even if you can pass for somebody younger, you’re still gonna have to do this stuff. 

Hayley: They’re like, all right. Fair enough.

Cool. 

Tami: Okay. So what’s your 

Hayley: morning routine? Like I’m big on 

Tami: morning and evening routines. So if you have a morning routine that works for you, or if you have a PM routine, I did not ask that in the questions, but I’m curious about. My am routine on lock. It’s so easy for me, cause I’m a morning person. My PM routine is always in flux and can go to hell in a handbag at any moment.

So tell me about your routines, Hailey. 

Hayley: Okay. So I don’t have a ton of routines. There’s only a couple things that I do every day in the morning. I always drink coffee and I always have an orgasm. 

Tami: You’re the second person 

Hayley: coffee orgasm, 

Tami: just saying, 

Hayley: yeah, I get up. Usually it’s strange. I’m a really early riser and my current partner, is the only person I’ve ever been with, who wakes up earlier than me.

So he often brings me coffee in bed. and I’ll drink coffee in bed and, you know, enjoy some time cruising on the internet or. I start checking my emails. I’ll have my morning orgasm and you know, and then I’ll get up and get to work. And then when my kid wakes up, I’ll, you know, snuggle with her, I wake up earlier than my kid.

Yeah. Yeah. and I’m the most productive in the morning. So I really like to like, do my focused work, like my script writing, or dive into a project, like 7:00 AM to like noon is like power time for me. I really like to dive right into work. And I also think I learned a long time ago because I am an early person that if I got my work done early in the day, then I could hang out with people later.

Tami: Yes. Like I feel like in a way. Like I keep farmers hours. it’s easier for me to get up at 4:00 AM than it is for me to stay up until 4:00 AM. So I’m like 

Hayley: a hundred percent 

Tami: we meet at 4:00 AM. I will just have slept a whole night before we do it. 

Hayley: Absolutely. I’m like, I will get, if I have thinking work to do, I can work late on certain things, but if I have like important thinking work to do, like I’d rather get up at four or 5:00 AM and do it, you know?

And then I like to be. 

Tami: I’m laughing. Cause I’m like, when you say late, do you mean like past 2:00 PM? 

Hayley: I know if I can be done by work at three I’m like awesome. You know, then I can start cooking. I can like, hang out with my kid. Like I can do whatever, you know? And then in the evening, you know, I like to read, maybe read before bed, always an orgasm before bed to, you know, yep.

Tami: I think you may have just unlocked a secret for a lot of people that are like, I, what I’m hearing is I’m not having enough orgasms or reading enough. 

Hayley: Yeah. That is 100% true. I think if you’re like orgasms, you will definitely sleep better and you definitely won’t feel worse. 

Tami: Right. Okay. I might add to catch the am and, or PM routine, both.

And I have you guys, if you are like, but I have issues around that area. I have an episode with my friend Kara house, who, her business is all about, sex ed and sexuality through from, I met her because she gave a talk to our preschool class, not the kids, but the parents. about how we can help not give our sexual baggage to our kids.

Hayley: Yeah. 

Tami: So she shout out to Carrie, I’m going to write in your notes, like link to Kara’s episode. I’m writing on my desk. there’s my big secret. I write in pencil on my desk. 

Hayley: I love it. You just need a little whiteboard desk. Well, I kind of have one chalkboard paint. it’s 

Tami: you know, I have an Ikea desk from 

Hayley: a white Ikea desk and a 

Tami: pencil.

It works great. but anyway, I’m going to add, I’m going to put orgasm on my list. I think that’s a good idea. Okay. So what else should people know about you? And then again, where can people find you online? especially people who are like, Oh, shit, I need help with video. So tell us where do you, what do we need to know about you and where can people find you online?

Hayley: what people can know is that I do full service video production, as I mentioned. So I help companies, profits and small businesses create videos, start to finish from writing the scripts, you know, filming our sourcing footage, editing the piece and giving it to you in a form that you can put on your website for your fundraiser or on your social media.

So do a lot of help with people who are getting their events online, as we know, like everything is video now. So if you have an event that’s turning virtual, if you’re working on an online class, if you need to do some live streaming, like I’m your lady and I got you. And I also do consulting with folks who are trying to figure out how to, you know, better up either their tech or their, you know, On camera personality.

any of those pieces, like I, you know, I feel like I already saw this, but I. I just so strongly believe that everyone can make amazing video and that the world will be a better and more beautiful place. The more of us are sharing our beautiful, diverse stories and selves. And there is no reason in this current moment that we cannot all be harnessing the power of video to share ourselves online.

And I think it’s just such a powerful tool for connection and for growing, a business or a cause online. 

Tami: I love it. And I. I wholeheartedly concur with we, people want to work with people they know and trust, and there’s no better way for people to learn about you and your business and who you are then actually seeing your face and talking to them.

Hayley: Yeah. Exactly. So you can find me on Instagram again, queer underscore mamma or Everhart creative. And you can also find me on my website, Everhart creative.com or you can email me Haley, H a L E y@everhartcreative.com too. Perfect. 

Tami: I love it. Okay. Haley, are you ready for our quick fire questions? 

Hayley: I’m ready.

Tami: Okay. So I used to watch inside the actor’s studio, but only the last five minutes because I did, it was like, I don’t care about the craft and all that. You all say the same thing. What I want to know is the quickfire questions. So I came up with my own and I took one of theirs, which is the last question.

Which is, what is your favorite swear word? Because I always want to have an explicit rating. People are like, Oh, I don’t want to have an explicit rating on my podcast. I’m like every fucking episode it’s explicit because I cannot be thinking about not swearing while I’m having good conversations. I cannot be bothered with censoring myself.

So that’s why I chose that question. Okay. First question, Haley, what is your Enneagram type? 

Hayley: You could probably guess it’s a three.

Tami: I hear you. I see your three, but you also said that you have it. Oh, you don’t have an inner critic? 

Hayley: No. Okay, cool. I mean, not really. 

Tami: I have one, I have yours. Don’t worry. I love threes. Cause I’m like, I get you. I get tons of stuff done too. But then I’m like, Ooh, that girl in your, head’s not slowing you down.

Like she’s slowing me 

Hayley: down now. I know I’m more of a wing two. Maybe then anything else? Like 

Tami: I’m a one wing too. There we go. Okay. Okay. Introvert or extrovert? 

Hayley: I like it. Just say that I’m an outgoing introvert or a very selective extrovert. 

Tami: Okay. So do you know your Myers? 

Hayley: I get in TJ. 

Tami: Really? I am Inn. Yes.

Okay. Known as the extroverted introvert. 

Hayley: Oh, maybe I need to retake it. Maybe it’s been awhile. Yeah. 

Tami: Yeah. Okay. Have you heard of the Gretchen Rubin for tendencies? 

Hayley: I looked it up because I liked to prepare. 

Tami: Okay, good. And so did you take the quiz 

Hayley: or you did 

Tami: and what did it come up with? 

Hayley: Okay. It came up with obligers.

The one that’s meets external expectations, right. More than internal. Yeah. Yeah. Close I’m. Like I bridged that in the upholder, but. I definitely have some obliger tendencies. 

Tami: Okay. And I work with almost exclusively. I we’re working with, I work with almost exclusively, obligers because I need external accountability and rebels and cause rebels are like, you can’t boss me around and neither can I, and I’m like, let me explain how we can work around your internal dialogue about getting stuff done.

And I am a questioner. It means every time somebody comes at me with, I have to do something I’m like, You better prove it the off. Cause I’m like, I’ve been like that since birth. I just am super quiet about I’m not doing it. I’m just like, 

Hayley: you know, see, I think I was like that when I was younger, but I think I’ve structured a life such that like the only people that I let give me external expectations, I’m like very selective about.

Yeah. And then I think the obliger piece, like I’m moving definitely more into the upholder because of, you know, my own battery work that I’ve done in the past 10 years. Exactly. I 

Tami: mean, it’s so interesting though. Right? Okay. Love language. But he 

Hayley: asked what service for sure. 

Tami: 100%. And it’s so funny again, watching you and what girl, I see you doing stuff now.

What is your, do you know what your secondary is? 

Hayley: It’s like active services. So high. I think my secondary is way lower, but it’s words of affirmation. 

Tami: I’m words of affirmation and then acts of service. And my spouse is opposite. He is acts of service words. So we’re just in this love language continuum of doing stuff and giving compliments.

Doing stuff that compliments, 

Hayley: I was not, I was previously married to someone who was not acts of service. And now my current partner is definitely acts of service, Mormon background, like service deeply embedded to like the cultural norms, you know, and yeah, it’s exactly what you’re describing. Just all like beautiful acts of service and the other pieces come into, but like we really get each other on that way.

Tami: And it’s I. Okay. So that book is super Jesus. See, at the end, like I want to rip the last 50 pages out and go, don’t read that part. So I think I can’t wholeheartedly, Oh my God. Dive into this, but I, the framework to be so helpful. And once he found that out, I was like, Sweetheart. We never have to buy another gift.

He’s Oh, thank God. We’ll see. We can stop pretending we care about gifts. I’m like, I will want gifts, but I’m going to tell you what I want. And you’re going to buy that as an act of service. And we’re going to high five about how I want exact thing. And he’s right back at you, 

Hayley: I’ve been with people who like, it’s like quality time is their number one.

And like quality time. I mean, of course I like care about it, but it doesn’t have that like resonance for me. And I’m always just Okay. I guess here we are. This seems fine. I don’t know. it’s not really doing for me what I think it’s supposed to be doing for you. 

Tami: Totally. And it’s so funny.

I had to rename all of the love languages. So I call, acts of service, getting shit done, or doing shit for you. I call words of affirmation is gold stars. 

Hayley: Yeah, 

Tami: and I call quality time asses in the seats. physical touch is like it’s hugging and gifts as gifts. I’m like, I don’t know what to tell you, but it’s so funny.

One of my friends. Her fiance is, he’s a, his love language is gifts. And he is like so extravagant. And I’m like, dude, every time when you leave the house, you just get him something, anything. Yeah. Thinking about you, I got you this chocolate chip cookie. Now you don’t know that I got free with my lunch, but I thought of you.

And she was like, what? And she tried it. She was like, Oh, I was like, I know I don’t it’s it’d be that simple, but I’m like, maybe it’s that simple. 

Hayley: Totally. 

Tami: maybe it’s that simple. I just have to give you the thing that makes you feel the way you want to feel. 

Hayley: Okay. 

Tami: And they have it for kids.

Have you done it for your 

Hayley: daughter yet? I haven’t. I should. That would be fun. 

Tami: I will say my kid is a quality time. With an acts of service slash gold stars that just might be modeling, but that’s her secondary. But I tried it because I thought no way. And then I started playing board games at 6:00 AM.

Hayley: My daughter’s behavior. 

Tami: Completely changed. I was like, I just had to play UNO and then, and you’ll be like, so cooperative, like one day we’ll get me homework done. Another game of UNO will get me complete compliance on the morning routine. 

Hayley: I feel great. I feel like quality time is probably my kids. Number one, but the acts of service, definitely a close second.

I can’t remember recently because you know, my partner and I are really into acts of service and he is such a homemaker and he was always dialing things in the house to really be like delightful for me and for us. And the other day she was like, Evan, I feel like I need a towel in the bathroom.

That’s my height. Like she’s starting to notice these like moments. And I feel like, yeah, it’s really her way of saying this is how you can show me that you love me too, you know? And they’re in a step parent relationship he’s been in our lives for maybe a year and a half, you know? So it’s it’s just fascinating.

I’m so beautiful to see like that culture of like love, you know, of all. 

Tami: Well, and I just got chills because your daughter’s not even five. And she’s Hey, you know, it would be really helpful for me. Is this very small, what we could do be kind of look out as maybe even insignificant. And she’s but if you give me that, then I can participate in this meaningful way in work that is making our house better for everyone.

Yeah. I’ll just tell you, Haley, you come to my house and you go, can I have a spoon? And I’m like, sure. Go to the drawer by your knees. Like, why is your silverware so low? Because when my kid was two, I said, can you put that silverware away from the dishwasher? And she’s really short. So we just everything’s our microwave.

It’s six inches off the ground. I to heat up something I have to get on the ground and people like, why am I, well, I want my kid to be able to make a case. Yeah. So the microwave has to be low. Her dishes are low and the silverware is low. Because I want her to have this meaningful, I want her to have meaningful work in her house so that she builds this confidence that she is a meaningful contributing member to our family.

Hayley: Yes. Part of our culture too. And people are always like, wow, your kid does X, Y, and Z. And I’m like, yeah, I mean, you know, part of it’s her, she was definitely the life one and a half year old. I do it myself. But also part of it’s as, you know, being like, no, this is what it means to be in a family.

Totally. I mean, 

Tami: my daughter’s name is Ruby, but she. Called herself, Rudy for years, Rudy, I was like, okay, Rudy, let me teach it. every time there’s a hole in something that she, that belongs to her, I don’t really know how to sell, but I can make a hole, disappear, something 

Hayley: in a rude way, 

Tami: threaded the needle and gave it to her and showed her how.

And I have all these videos of her, like two and three years old, like sewing her pillow back together or sewing her stuff down and we’ll back together. And people like how I was like, I never had a more enthusiastic participant than a toddler in anything I’m like, Oh, you want to help?

Let me teach you how to fold napkins. And then we’re going to fold dish towels, and then you can fold. I was like, I don’t know how to an advanced degree in laundry, 

Hayley: but 

Tami: I do have somebody who wants to learn. So we’ve been taking summer during shelter in place to, cause we don’t have a house cleaner anymore.

I’m sad. So the house cleaner is me and everybody else that lives here. So I have been teaching her how to clean the bathroom. And so we’re in the shower, like scrubbing the tile and doing the thing. And she turns around and she goes, Oh mama, this is so fun. I was like, Kati you’re so nine gotta collect this energy and you’re going to be so good at cleaning that everyone’s going to be out of your roommate.

Hayley: Me 

Tami: a roommate that knows how to clean the bathroom. Well, and she’s I love spending this time with you. I’m like, okay, we could literally be doing anything and now I’m clean teaching you how to clean a shower. Okay, 

Hayley: cool. I love kids so much. I do too. I do too. 

Tami: Is if we put them to work in the way that’s meaningful, I feel like it’s if you have a border Collie, You can have a nervous Nellie, crazy person, crazy dog who chews up all your stuff, or you can give that dog who’s meant to work a job.

And then they can be like the best dog ever. let’s just harness people’s innate skills and talents and traits. 

Hayley: Yes. Yeah. Kids want to help. They want to work. They want to learn. It’s yeah. And yeah, if you’ve got them at the right age, when it’s still like super fun and not a burden, 

Tami: Yeah, but I will say, but a lot of people like, but they are not 

Hayley: very good at it.

That’s true. It takes a lot of patients. It’s so true. I mean, even with the cooking, like I’m super into cooking and baking and like things don’t always turn out as well, or they take three times as long and that’s where I really do call on future self, and future child. Like I imagine her, you know, at 20 or whatever, like having this high level of skills or I even imagine me, you know, five, 10 years and what she’s able to do because I stuck with it and had that extra level of patience because you see what happens.

It’s like that short term thinking it doesn’t pan out in the long run. 

Tami: Well, I, so I S I don’t know if you know this, but I used to be an elementary school teacher. So when I was in my student teaching, you know, cause right. You know, writing is a process. It’s there’s the thinking part. And then there’s the drafting part.

And then there’s the actual, like writing production. And then there’s the editing. And then, excuse me, there’s the revising actually making it better. And then there’s the editing, which is like correcting your shit. And then there’s the publishing. Right. And the teacher I was working collaborative with, she would do a lot of the, the editing for them.

She’s they’re terrible at this. I was like, but how are they ever going to get better? You’re doing it like you’re sick. And so kids, I had to have a student. My first year of teaching was like, Yeah. A couple months in and he said, I w I’ll never forget this. He goes, you are one of the laziest grownups I have ever met.

And I was like, 

Hayley: okay, 

Tami: can you tell me more about that? He’s you don’t do anything around here, but open the door and write the schedule on the board. And I was like, and your point he’s what do you do here? And I said, well, I said, thank you for noticing. I said, I have a philosophy and that is, if kids can do it at any level, they should be doing it.

Cause I already went to third grade and 

Hayley: I’m 

Tami: good at third grade stuff. Cause I’m like 35 and I said, don’t worry. I said next year, when you go to a different teacher’s class, They will treat you like a baby again, and you will not feel nearly as good about yourself as you do in this moment. But he was like, okay.

Hayley: You’re 

Tami: just, you’re lazy. I’m just, you’re on molest. I was like, okay, whatever. And then the first week of school, the next year, he literally ran up to me on the playground. He’s like, how did you know? I was like, I eat lunch with your teacher. I, we all eat lunch together. They’re my friends. This is how this works.

And he was like, Yeah. Yeah, I go, I just, you guys are terrible at stuff cause you’re inexperienced and I give you lots and lots of opportunity to practice and to help each other. And yes, does it. I was like, does it make my life easier? I was like, yeah, by the end of the year, it’s easier. It’s really hard for me not to micromanage your terrible work right now.

I’m looking at the long game. But I had students write me letters, like when they were in high school and they were like, why literally the hardest I ever worked was in your class. And I was like, I love you 

Hayley: too. Yeah. Yeah. 

Tami: I know. And it’s painful when we’re all growing together and we’re learning stuff. I hate learning.

It sucks. it’s painful. It’s uncomfortable. You’re bad at stuff. but it’s 

Hayley: horrible to be bad at stuff. 

Tami: Yeah. But it’s literally, there’s you can’t skip it. I guess that’s the 

Hayley: point. That’s what I always talk to her about. I’m like, Oh, of course. Oh, learning new things is all hard. It’s so hard to not be good at stuff, but that’s how we learn new things.

Yeah. Yeah. 

Tami: Okay. Well, so what’s your favorite last book that you read? 

Hayley: That’s a tough one, but I’m going to say an American marriage. Have you read it? 

Tami: Oh, it was so good. Okay. Good choice. what is your favorite book of all time? Hard 

Hayley: to say, but why be happy when you can be normal to not Winterson memoir, that’s a lie for her mother.

Why 

Tami: be happy 

Hayley: when you could be normal. It’s like they it’s like the counter to what you and I have been talking about. yeah. And I, and her rebellion 

Tami: and I’m going to go get it. Okay. What is your favorite personal development book? 

Hayley: You know, I don’t know. I’m not much of a personal development reader, but when I saw this question, I was thinking about the book parenting from the inside out, which I really loved.

Tami: That was one of the only parenting books. Yeah. 

Hayley: Yeah. One of the only ones worth reading how to talk. So kids will listen and listen. So kids will talk. That’s also, 

Tami: I’m looking at that book right now on my shelf and I am a huge proponent of positive discipline by Jay Nelson. but all of those things fit together.

Like they’re all like. Yeah. Parenting from the inside out. If you guys haven’t read it yet, here’s what you need to know, get your shit together. And your kids will be fine. damn. You ain’t even have to read the book. You don’t have to know shit. Cause you know what it’s you, it’s not them.

Mirror neurons. 

Hayley: Get your shit. 

Tami: Your kids will be fine. And that’s what I was like, Oh man, that goes back to the mission of my work, which is. Let us not think that you can somehow parent better than your personal state of being. Yes. 

Hayley: It doesn’t work like that. I know when you hear the martyr parents thing, you know, and they’re so stressed out and they’re so irritable and they’re beating themselves up by, you know, they’re snapping at their kids and you know, this and that.

And all I can think is yeah, you got to get yourself straight. Like you’re never going to be less irritable. You’re not going to serve that to solve that interpersonally until like you take care of yourself and 

Tami: go to the source. 

Hayley: Yeah. Yep. 

Tami: Yeah, I do. I do love that book, although, but reading it, I was like, why is this book more than one sentence?

Hayley: I know, I think I maybe like half of it. And then I was like, okay. Yeah, 

Tami: got it. Get my shit together. Go into therapy. Okay. Okay. Oh, you mean? Yeah. Do self care. Okay. Yeah. Thank you for bringing that one up because yes, that is a good one. Favorite social media channel. Where do you like to hang out? Really?

Okay. I’m hearing you. I have enjoyed a lot of watching. Like I see people post stuff on Twitter cause I love Twitter. sometimes Instagram is where I hang out the most, but I do love Twitter, tick tock. Okay. I’m going to say this in the most, uninformed and nonjudgmental. And Annette, I’m going to say stick with uninformed.

I have heard rumors that it’s really bad for information, mining, even worse than like the bullshit we’re on with Zuckerberg. 

Hayley: Yes, it is. You know, and I think that’s a real serious issue. and one that really needs to be addressed, but just in terms of the pure joy I get from hanging out on there, like it’s just got great content, 

Tami: So what kind of content do you consume or do you make content or both? 

Hayley: Both. and again, you know, it was a younger, the person in this case, my stepdaughter, it was like my sister who was like, get on YouTube, I’ve done them all. I was like a huge Twitter person. Like years ago I had an anonymous Twitter.

I’ve done everything. Right. I love YouTube. I still like Instagram a lot, but my stepdaughter was like, you got to get on tick tock. And then I was like, alright, I’ll like, try to make a tech talk. I kept trying to figure it out and I couldn’t figure out. And finally, I just like. Made one while my partner was like doing my hair and then I just uploaded it.

And then it like got a million bucks. And my step daughter was 

Tami: like, 

Hayley: Oh my God, I told you it’d be good. And I was like, well, I guess I am a professional story teller. So even me just fooling around, like it had to be, you know, Anyway, but now I don’t really make that much. I mostly consumed and there’s just everything.

Tami: I mean, there’s just really 

Hayley: interesting content. There’s this whole like lesbian subculture, that’s called like cottage core. That’s basically like cute queer people, homesteading sort of adjacent foresty. There’s a ton of black lives matter content on there. There’s you know, trans and gender queer youth, just being like, I don’t care about you.

And I do a lot of work with like youth driven nonprofits too. And I just got to say the kids are, you know, black and Brown and queer and move out of the way old white guys. So like, whenever I hang out with you, which is a little bit like what I feel like I’m doing on take top, I’m like, all right, we’re going to be fine.

Tami: I think it’s funny. I, as a gen X person, I feel like the thing that has, made this latest generation, which I’m gonna, I’m gonna, I’m gonna predict it. The greatest generation is the democratization of information 

Hayley: dissemination, 

Tami: like giving everyone their own goddamn channel. He has changed the world cause old white guys they own when there was only four channels that they dominated those Jacqueline.

Hayley: But 

Tami: now that the channels are infinite, you’re like, I don’t have to, 

Hayley: I don’t need those gatekeepers, bye. 

Tami: Exactly. And once the gatekeepers are gone and that democracy, that’s why also why it feels really Oh my God, things are out of control because there’s no gatekeepers. That’s actually a good 

Hayley: thing.

Agreed 100%. I did a project years ago interviewing lesbian YouTube owners on like why they had their channels and this and that. And every single one of them was like, I needed a place to go where I could be in control of my own content. And I didn’t need to ask a gatekeeper for permission. And I was like, yeah, that’s profound.

Like 

Tami: just make fingers all tingling when you said that. Yeah. It’s. I’m here for people who were formerly disenfranchised to be like, I’m not going to play within that power structure anymore. Cause I don’t have 

Hayley: to exactly love it as a storyteller. And I just think it’s just very interesting, like from a storytelling perspective, 

Tami: I think it’s interesting from a democracy perspective.

Hayley: Absolutely. 

Tami: You know, I worked in politics for a long time. And again, there was, when I was doing it 20 years ago, there was like one channel, like the internet had basically just started being invented, but we were still for all of our mail. We were sending things in the physical mail. Right. And people had to watch commercials and people had to do all of these things and you don’t have to do any of that anymore.

It re it requires a level of responsibility on the consumers part. Yes. In such new ways. But I like being a grownup about stuff. 

Hayley: I like that. I like that all different kinds of people can see themselves reflected in the media because. There’s so many different kinds of content. Like you said, the fifth year old woman, like how to look better as an older like that wouldn’t no one had, would have funded that show, you know?

Tami: Exactly. Well also because you know, 50 year old women are I’m old. I don’t look, I actually look younger 

Hayley: now 

Tami: than I did 20. That’s 

Hayley: awesome. 

Tami: Part of it is because of the content that I. consume by other people my age, who are like, you know, you need to do, you need to lift that camera up and you need to put the filter on everything that you’re on.

You need to do this. And I’m like, what? 

Hayley: Grab your ring light. 

Tami: Grab your ring light. I’ll we still have to solve there. The glasses in the ring light 

Hayley: conversation. Yes. We need to talk about 

Tami: that. Talk about that. okay. We have gone 

Hayley: off. I know I was going to say that relates to my favorite TV show, which I know is your next question, which is.

Probably I got to say, I’m not actually a big TV consumer. I make so much more content that I consume, but grace and Frankie, baking of incredible older women. 

Tami: I love that. Love 

Hayley: that. 

Tami: I love everything about that show. And it’s so funny because I write this question as what’s your favorite TV show. But what I really mean is what is your favorite show past, present and future, if you were going to write one or if you’ve already got one, so grace and Frankie makes the list.

What other kinds of media do you like or that have you created that other people should check out? 

Hayley: Oh, that’s a good question. I mean, I just think it’s amazing that there’s actually like queer content now. there just were no queer shows like really when I was growing up and this is not a TV show, although I hope they would make it.

But when I saw fun home, which is like the Alison Bechtel, like dykes to watch out for comic, it was made into a Broadway musical. And when I sat in a theater and watched like a Butch dykes story, On a giant stage with a massive audience. I was just balling. Like I was just like, Holy fuck. This is so profound.

Tami: Well, the idea that representation matters is in all regards, it’s so funny. I was having a conversation with somebody who is running for city council, not in my town. And I met her in a group. Called dear grown-ass women. it’s a ladies group for people over 35. It’s awesome. Anyway, we were talking about, representation and I was like, what’s so weird is in 1991, I wrote a college paper about black female representation in Congress and how, the only way that black women were going to be protected in this country is if there were more black women in office.

And she was like, what kind of fucking profit are you? I was like, well, I’m not, I just look at the power structure. And I’m like, dudes are taken care of, they don’t stay women’s health and they sure should throw it saying white women’s health. They’re not sure should not studying black women’s 

Hayley: health.

Tami: And if you have women at the table women’s issues, I was actually working or in later than I worked in the current congressional caucus for women’s issues. That’s not a mouthful to say. but I was like, 

Hayley: they don’t 

Tami: men typically, especially men in power do not see what they are not. They don’t, I don’t give a fuck.

Cause they’re like that doesn’t affect me. We’re not going to study menopause. That doesn’t affect me. And we’re not going to study birth control. We’re not going to study the effects of this common drug 

Hayley: on 

Tami: anybody, but if 

Hayley: 150 year old, Man. I’m like, well, why are you giving it to women? Right. It’s 

Tami: crazy town.

Okay. So that was another soap box that everyone is welcome to. Finally, 

Hayley: Hailey, 

Tami: what is your favorite swear word? 

Hayley: Dominantly. Fuck. 

Tami: The hands down, runaway winner. My daughter just walked in the room, started laughing cause we a week, not that long ago at our family meeting and our goal for the week was for all of us to stop swearing so much because it didn’t work, but we were like, we’re going to have to go out with other people at some point,

edit that out. 

Hayley: I’m 

Tami: going to edit that out. Stop it. Go back in the kitchen. I’m almost done. Go back in the kitchen. Katie, can you add up, edit out Ruby. Swearing. I’m not talking to Katie. I’m talking to Haley. Go in the kitchen.

Okay. That’s what you get. It’s showing off her company. They’re like, Oh, I got some squares. No seriously, Katie, if you could white out that part of Ruby, swearing, anyhow, 

Hayley: fuck 

Tami: is by and large. it’s the word that, it’s the word that keeps on giving 

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Hayley: It makes a statement very useful. Very useful.

Tami: Okay. Friends, you know, Haley. It’s going to help you solve your storytelling and your video problem. So find her on Instagram, check out our website. And until next time, remember that you matter too.