Today we are going to talk about some grief-specific self-care and things that we can do on daily, weekly, monthly, yearly, so that we can be in this space where we’re deeply caring for ourselves and other people during times of grief at loss mourning.

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Tami: [00:00:00] Welcome back to the, get better with grief series with Tami Hackbarth and Michelle Marlon, your grief besties. Oh, we’re excited. I finally got the intro here. We’re going to have to keep doing this cause the intro came way late, but here we are better and better. Michelle, can we talk about some grief specific self-care and things that we do on daily, weekly, monthly, yearly, so that we can be in this space where we’re deeply caring for ourselves and other people during times of grief at loss mourning.

Michelle: [00:00:44] Yeah. So how we care for ourselves around like in our, in our grief, how we care for our grieving grieving selves grading practices. 

Tami: [00:00:55] Yeah. Yeah. 

Michelle: [00:00:57] We’ve talked a little bit already about grief, adversaries, anniversaries of big dates. And I think those markers are really important. I would say just like getting those on the calendar.

So that you kind of have a framework. And actually in the last episode you were talking about how it’s not uncommon for those things to be concentrated in even one or two months or a season. So, getting that on the calendar so that you kind of forecast that and prepare yourself and maybe your other 

Tami: [00:01:30] people And I would say even maybe set a calendar alert for the week before that it’s coming.

Oh, for sure. So that you’re not like, why is everything feeling so weird the few days before the few days after, because it’s not necessarily like, you’re not have your grief alarm. Right. You’re not like there’s not some thing going off, like this is the day, but there is something about like how the light changes.

Cause my big grief month is March and that’s when like the light starts to change the seasons changing, the leaves are coming back. So there’s like so many like physical reminders. Allergies are starting. You’re like, is it COVID or is it allergies? We’d like to play that game. At least we have this the last two years.

So yeah, so, and, and going, maybe I’m not going to do my most creative work during that time. Maybe I shouldn’t do an audit with the IRS on the anniversary of my mom’s death, yup. 

Michelle: [00:02:35] Yup. That’s right. I think when they are on the calendar, it does give us, like, I have an anniversary coming up in June and I’m trying to plan some work things and I have it on the calendar.

And so it’s like, oh, okay, Saturdays. Oh, Nope. Not that Saturday, but if, if it wasn’t there, I mean, I probably would remember, but. In 10 years while everyone will probably still remember, but there are some dates that you just might kind of overlook and in a rush, you schedule something. And if that works for you, that’s fine.

I like to personally take those really kind of core grief bursaries off of my kind of day to day stuff and do more of that self-care practice that you’re talking 

Tami: [00:03:17] about. What’s interesting is I like to just give myself the freedom to see what comes up in some anniversaries. I’m like crying and other days I’m like kind of fetal, like eating a burrito.

Right. Kind of feel like watching a movie. Do you know what I mean? It’s like, totally just let whatever bubbles up bubble up. Instead of being like. I don’t have to make it super, like I light a candle at eight 30 and then I do this thing. It’s just, I, I give myself space that if something big bubbles up, I do it, but I’m probably not gonna, put a job interview or even a podcast interview on a big day, because I don’t know how it’s going to show up for me.

Yeah, absolutely. 

Michelle: [00:04:03] Yeah, I think, and that just sort of depends on your personality, some days a real planner and that feels very soothing. Then you can totally plan something out, leaving room for, you don’t really know how it’s going to go and the big secret, I’m not sure if we’ve let this big secret out of it, out of the bag yet.

I can’t remember. But the big secret is the days leading up to are often harder than the day of thought is not uncommon for there to be this anticipatory anxiety and emotion. And then the day comes and it’s like, oh, well, I’ve worn 

Tami: [00:04:39] myself out. Yeah. It’s sort of anti-climactic by the time it gets there.

Michelle: [00:04:44] Yes. I mean, it doesn’t always happen, so that might not happen for you, but that’s been a really 

Tami: [00:04:49] green. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You’re like, I feel something’s Brewin. I’m not sure what it is, but it, it should, when you head to the calendar, it’d be like, ah, three days from now is a big, big grief aversary for some, and it doesn’t have to be the day that your person died or the day you lost your job or got divorced or decided you were getting divorced or got the diagnosis.

It could be. The day you were going to do this thing with your person, or you were supposed to go to this conference on behalf of your company that you’re like, fuck them. I don’t work there anymore. Right. And so it’s, 

Michelle: [00:05:32] I comes in so many forms. Just dates that are significant for you, dates that you remember that stick with you.

Those were the important ones to acknowledge and give yourself a lot of space around. So one of the things that we have talked about is ritual and. Bringing some kind of a ceremony or, something that feels a little more sacred 

Tami: [00:06:01] to what do you mean by ritual? 

Michelle: [00:06:04] Yeah, so I’m, I’m saying like ritual and ceremony sort of as, as a similar thing as, as a similar category, but I mean, something a little more.

Formal and by formal, that could just be, now I’m going to go to my candle and I’m going to say a few words that are coming to me right now. I’m going to light my candle, sit quietly for 60 seconds, and then I’m going to go on about my day. Like I would call that a ritual, a ceremony might be something a little bit more involved.

It might be a little more planned out. It might involve other people. It might involve props 

Tami: [00:06:45] the elements of 

Michelle: [00:06:46] nature or important objects. So 

Tami: [00:06:51] is that helpful? Yeah, totally. And so one of our rituals is We light a candle for tests right at, at night. And it’s the candle that she gave me where she it’s a particular scent of candle.

And so she had the candle at her house. I had the candle at my house and she told me whenever you light this candle, think of me because I’ll be having it burning at my house during the season. And then when that candle started, like dwindling down, I was like, must replace this candle, but we light it.

And then we read a passage at a Cindy Spiegel’s book, a year of positive thinking. And we talk about the passage of the day. Like, what did it have to do with tests? Did she live her way in this way? Did she struggle with this? Did she not? And it’s my way of letting my family get to know her. Much more than they ever had, because even though my spouse knows and loves her, they didn’t hang out.

Cause she was too busy being my friend and my kid’s little. So she only got, nine years with her and I’m like, I had 30 plus years and I don’t want the lessons of Tess’s. Genuinely effervescent kind, hearted expansive, just loveliness. I don’t want my kid to miss out on that. And telling 

Michelle: [00:08:17] those stories and sharing those memories is a way to keep that presence.

As we know, the person dies the relationship doesn’t. So how can you keep the, the beautiful essence of that alive in your family alive in your heart? Those continue with you, you are affected by her, whether she is here or not. And that’s just, that can be part of you don’t even have to call it a ritual.

Like if people don’t like that word, you could just call it, like, it’s a part of how we remember. It’s a part of our nightly 

Tami: [00:08:51] routine. Yeah. Well, another thing is, so, in the last episode I talked about how my mom’s birthday is on the 4th of July, which is. When I was a kid, I thought my mom’s birthday was like the best thing ever.

I’m like, are you kidding me? Work and fireworks. Holy shit. This is the best thing ever. I have come to realize not the best thing ever. However every year since she’s died, I have made a cake. And we sing happy birthday to my mom. And then we go around the table. It’s a very short exercise because there’s only three of us, but we say something, we said, good memory about her.

And then we eat the cake. And then I usually cry for like five minutes. Right. And I think, I miss my mom and I’m sad that she isn’t still with us physically. But, I mean, she died when my daughter was four. We were talking about her. Like she lives down the street this morning. Yeah. So this idea that you get to choose the relationship that you continue with your people.

Michelle: [00:10:09] Absolutely. And that, so if we’re talking about those daily, weekly, Practices. That seems like one of the things, I mean, I’m, you might not have other people might not have considered that self-care, but it’s just a part of your life now. And it, it does help normalize and it helps continue. And and it also helps to bring all of you, the three of you closer together.

Tami: [00:10:38] I love that. Yeah. Some sell like some more traditional self carry things that I do, especially in early grief. I’m always drawn to restorative yoga because I’m like, oh my God, I can’t, the world is spinning so fast. I need it to slow down because I have like cotton wool stuck inside my brain and I can’t comprehend things.

And it’s all too fast, too much to this, to everything that I’m like, I need to like cocoon up, get quiet. And like tuck myself in and use all the props. And that’s when I really crave, like having, it’s going to sound weird if you’ve never practiced restorative yoga before all the sandbags, like I want some, wait, wait, what?

Wait. So I feel grounded and I feel connected to the, to the ground and held and supported and I cannot have enough blankets on top of me. I pillow the whole shebang. Yep. What about you for daily stuff? And meditation goes with that too. Yeah. Yeah. 

Michelle: [00:11:47] For me, I know I’ve talked. People are probably tired of hearing about going for a walk, but like nature is really my place.

Just being outside, even if it’s just going out into the backyard on the patio and sitting in the chair and, Even for all the other sounds like tuning into the birds, watching the leaves, flutter on the Bush, like really simple stuff, but that’s, that’s what really gives me juice and calm and grounding.


Tami: [00:12:16] I just made super empathy face. You guys, you can’t see me. Michelle can though. And that is because tests died in. Early, mid November and Sacramento, if you’ve never been here before in November is just a cacophony of leaves and color. And it’s finally not hot. It’s so pretty. It’s so beautiful.

And it’s my favorite time of year. And so one of the things I put on my daily grief checklist during my acute grief was. Drive to see the leaves. And that was otherwise, it would’ve never occurred to me to leave the house because I was so like my shoes, my shoes are made out of cement. I am walking around in a circle, I don’t know to of myself, but having that note.

And so I would just drive to a park. Parked my car, sit there and just look out the windshield and just see what we call fall magic. That’s what my kid and I call it, which is you just, if you watch a tree long enough, like 30 seconds in Sacramento on any day in November, like the leaves swirling down.

Yeah. And I love fall Tesla to the Pacific Northwest, and we always did a trip there in the fall and she loved fall and we loved like wearing boots and crunching through the leaves. And I just, I did not want to miss it. Because I also call it fall magic because when it’s over, it’s over, like don’t blink, right.

It does last about six weeks or so. But, but if you don’t look up for six weeks, you have missed the yearly show and I did not want to miss it. Yeah. Yeah. Going be by water, like watching the river, going to the ocean. Yeah, nature. It’s personal. What, what nourishes you? 

Michelle: [00:14:19] I, I have taught yoga for 20 years now and six years ago when the baby died, I didn’t do yoga for like a year.

That was when, as I started going to the gym. I started going to group fitness classes with loud music and people jumping around 

Tami: [00:14:40] and Tammy is shaking 

Michelle: [00:14:41] her head because it’s very uncharacteristic me. I remember 

Tami: [00:14:45] you told me that I was like, have we had some sort of freaky Friday thing? Cause I love me a group fitness class, the louder, the music, the better.

And I was like, you do that. Well, yeah, I’m in a cocoon up at my house and all my yoga props and you’re like, I’m going to go to the gym and get my sweat on. Well, this was like year two. Yeah. Not right away. 

Michelle: [00:15:09] But yeah, I, I couldn’t do yoga for some, it just like couldn’t be in my body in that way was too slow.

It was too quiet. And my body is where, everything happened. So I didn’t really want to be in there. But I could do a group fitness class because I got to move. And actually, now that I think about it, this was all prompted by my therapist saying, girl, you need some endorphins and here’s your prescription.

Go. Fricking exercise. Get a sweat on, get your heart rate up. And so that’s what I did and it, it really did help. It really got me back in my body in a different way. I enjoyed moving. The circulation was good for me and yeah, it did it improve my mental health. It just, I want to say it improved my mental health in a way that allowed me to be with my grief.

It’s not like when we do something like that, we’re trying to get rid of the grief. We’re just trying to be. In a place of where we’re more balanced and we can be with the feelings of grief that come and go and not get sucked into that Undertale of 

Tami: [00:16:18] them. Okay. So this is a good time for two things.

One, I my morning miles that I’ve been doing for years, well, I did not do that for. Like fitness. I do that because I’m getting rusty getting to that age where I’m like, oh my God, if I don’t move, it hurts. If I don’t move, it hurts. Like it’s, it’s messed up and turn it into the tin man over here.

So like, I have to move in order to like keep moving. And the other thing. I started taking medication. I started taking an antidepressant slash anxiety, anxiety medication between the pandemic and losing my best friend and the election. Like my brain was like, I’m sorry, I’m gonna need you to call in some reinforcements.

And after taking it for a few days, I thought, holy shit, this is the best thing I’ve ever done. And let me tell you. I did not magically become unsafe. Sad. I did not magically become someone who is not in a car, acute grief. I was it’s like that idea of, I was so deep in a hole. I was stuck and I needed to get a little bit closer to the surface so that I could grieve in a way that was productive.

Yeah. And how that looked was. I texted my friend Rosie. Hi Rosie. And I was like, because she did the, she did the daily, check-ins checking in on your heart. And I was like, I could not love her more. And one day she texted and she was like, I’m checking in with you today. And I, I just straight up was like, I am super struggling in a way that I had never struggled before.

And she said, have you spoken to your doctor? And I thought, well, that’s weird. Of course not. Why would I tell my doctor I’m struggling? And she was like, doctors can help. And I thought, you know what? So I just copied what I, I texted her, I emailed it to my doctor and within two hours, my doctor got back to me and she gave me like a list of, I dunno, Twenty-five self care things.

And at the end, she goes, I know you’re doing this already. And if you need a script, I have one for you. It’s on file. Nice. And I was like, ah, so lovely. And you’re right. I do all those things. I’m still doing all those things, wearing my, I could feel so much fucking worse. T-shirt and within two hours of reaching out to someone, I had what I needed to take a step forward.

Yeah. So sometimes self-care is meditation and sometimes self-care is medication and it’s up to you and your doctor and your healthcare provider and whoever to determine that. And it was so nice. When I, when I actually, after I got the script, In the pipeline to be delivered to me, because at that point I was like, okay, you know what?

I’m not going to do. I’m not going to go to the pharmacy and get COVID during a fucking pandemic today, deal with my anxiety. Some of that’s going to let them deliver it to me. But in the, in the meantime, I reached out to a bunch of other, other female friends who were there, not my 18, but they’re like people who are a total presence in my life that I adore.

And I was like, Hey. So I’m really struggling. And I’m thinking about taking medication and every single one of them was like, oh my God, I took medication when this happened. And it’s super helped. Me. Other people were like, you’re going to have to pry that shit out of my dead cold hand. It is the thing that helps me keep going every day.

And I was like, okay, we all need to wear t-shirts that say, I am, I am accepting that I need help. In whatever way that I need it. And I’m going to give myself permission to need what I need and to ask help and to receive the help that’s going to help me get to the place where I can do the thing I need to do.

And maybe your thing is, you needed to get a new job. Well, what do you need to do to take care of yourself, to get through that hard thing? Maybe you’re re figuring your entire life because you retired. And suddenly you’re like, shit, I can’t get out of bed in the morning because I’ve lost my purpose.

Reach out to your GP, reach out to a therapist. So here’s another plug for hiring a mental health professional. And I can’t stress enough how much the mental health professionals in my life have really gotten me through these really tough times. So, I guess we could call that weekly self care. The daily as the medication, the weekly or monthly is checking in with a mental health professional.

What are some other self-care things 

Michelle: [00:21:22] can also help you discern, like, am I at the place of needing, would this be a support or, would it not, am I not there? Or what are my options? Like, it’s just great to talk about your options with your mental 

Tami: [00:21:36] health. Provider, 

Michelle: [00:21:38] what are some other self-care?

I feel like we talked 

Tami: [00:21:43] about, you were going to say something. So this goes back into the, maybe check out what the resources are in your community before you have a loss, because let me tell you trying to find mental health resources when you actually need them is some sort of weird. A cosmic joke.

Cause you’re like, I can’t make a phone call because I’m too fucking depressed and I need whatever’s on the other end of the phone to help me get through the thing. So. Right now, Google the word bereavement and the city you live in and get yourself some resources. So once I got the medication and I could make a phone call my doctor in the really long email.

Thank you, Dr. Ferris. She also said, Hey, I want you to pursue. Do this with mental health. And I was like, cool. She gave me a phone number to call and I was like, who would I have to get a piece of paper? I have to do all these things, but she also gave me a phone number for grief support groups. I love me a support group.

I’m not even lying. So I’m with Kaiser health system in Northern California. And I have been thoroughly impressed by they have weekly grief workshops where mental health grief professionals present on a topic, much like Michelle and I are doing here for free. And you don’t have to call anyone. It’s just, we come to you and your phone, your health system might have grief.

Workshops for you to further your learning. So Kaiser’s, they were really good. You just call in, you listen done, but then they have this thing that they call a closed grief support group. And what happens is that there’s, there was in this case, two facilitators, a male and a female facilitator, the closed group.

So it was the same people at the same time for 10 weeks and we are going through, so how it works is they. Two facilitators do. We’re going through understanding your grief, 10 essential touchstones for finding hope and healing in your heart by Dr. Alan wool felt. And what they do is they do a tiny presentation.

They sent everyone in the group, a copy of the book, which I’m like, whoa, I feel like I got to, I feel like I got a prize cause Kaiser sent me a book, but they go through and they do a presentation. There’s a quote or two from the text or something that goes along with the lesson. They open it up for everyone to like, kind of go around round Robin round Robin style.

And here’s the thing not everyone’s going to share, not everyone’s going to share every time. But because it’s the same group of people, you create this safety container where you can be like, okay, I’m ready to share. And the introvert in me is loving these on zoom. I don’t want to go into a room. It turns out and sit around with strangers.

I want to sit around with strangers, from the comfort of my own home whilst wearing headphones. Yeah. And, but, but if you contact your primary care physician and say, what are the griefs resources that are available in our particular health system? What’s covered by my insurance. What’s the cost. And a lot of grief resources are a hundred percent free as they should be if they’re being provided by a health system.

I have found that to be a great comfort cause one of the things I want to do in acute grief. Is be with other people in acute grief. Absolutely. 

Michelle: [00:25:31] Yeah. So I have two things from that one and you’re talking about asking and reaching out what are my resources. And I, I have recently had the experience in a different way with this cancer and surgery that.

The surgeon, that like they’re not offering, they didn’t have a handout for me. No one said, Hey, in case you want a support group. But I took a friend to my pre-op appointment, which I was allowed to do. They actually. Suggested that I do that because rather than me trying to take it all in and at some point I just shut down as they knew I would she could take notes.

So she took copious notes and also, it was listening with a different ear and could ask different questions and she asked, so. Are there support groups. Are there resources? I also have Kaiser that Kaiser offers for my dear friend here, who, now looks like she’s in a little bit of an emotional coma.

And it was such a great question. So 

Tami: [00:26:34] yeah, being able to bring an advocate with you during appointments, especially if you’re thinking that you may get a diagnosis or it’s the appointment, the one appointment you have immediately after a diagnosis and maybe not bringing your spouse. Yeah, because your spouse has that vested interest, but bringing somebody who is really good at listening and good at advocating for you.

Michelle: [00:26:57] Yeah. And that was intentional. Like, I, I didn’t take my spouse. I asked this specific friend to go because I knew she’d take good notes. I knew she’d ask good questions. I knew she’d be a better support person for me. 

Tami: [00:27:13] My 

Michelle: [00:27:13] heavy, just. That’s not his forte. It’s not his strong suit to really pay attention and, and be detailed like that.

So yeah, no, your people and. Take the appropriate person. If you have that opportunity. And then I will take the introvert quality to a whole nother level in support. And I will say that I have recently re embraced Facebook groups along with other groups that you can find online. I have an auto-immune disorder.

I have found a Facebook group for that. I have joined two Facebook groups for women. One is for young women with endometrial cancer because it’s quite rare to be young and have endometrial cancer. And here’s what I will say. A word of caution about Facebook groups and other groups, forums like that.

It has been one of the best things that I have found. And it has been one of the worst things that I have found because most often the people who post and comment a lot are in really, really dire situations. They are at the extreme. And so, just tempering that, but 

Tami: [00:28:26] again, as a way to find the dosing thing, it’s 

Michelle: [00:28:30] all about dosing.

And I have had to really like. Reign myself in, because it became a little bit obsessive, like what’s happening now and what are all the things that could happen. And I’m, I’m actually going to unfollow one of the endometrial cancer groups because. It’s not supportive. Like it’s now gotten to the place where it’s not of help.

So, but it’s great because I can ask questions. None of these people know me, I can type it out. I don’t even have to be on a camera or use my voice. I just, type out my question and I’ll get a bunch of responses and it has been incredibly helpful, but yes, just a word of caution on Catastrophizing 

Tami: [00:29:16] and well, that’s a little, that’s a way bigger container.

So it’s like the 10, the 10 weeks group is a closed container. Yes. With like cushions and pillows and people in charge, or like creating the agenda, all that. And as someone who’s been in a closed group, I did a, I did a. Mother loss support group. After my mom died, Michelle, I hated every single person. I was like, this group cannot be done fast enough.

And why am I being judgy sail? Well, it turns out everyone in that group was like, my mom was my best friend. Then all I wanted to do was pointed everyone and go. You’re a fucking delusional liar, right? The main things that you said about your mom, and if that’s your best friend, you have very low standards for friendship.

So it just felt like this competition of like, my mom was the best. And I was like, I feel like my, I had a complicated relationship with my mom, but I feel like my, my relationship was the best because it was fucking real. Like I had a real relationship with a real woman as my mother who was deeply flawed.

And deeply loved just like me, but all of this, like, putting people on pedestal, I was like, you’re a crazy lunatic. I hope you all get your shit together. Once you stop idolizing your mother. And oh my God, there was a set of sisters in that group. It was like they were talking about a different fucking woman.

It was amazing. So a closed group also does not guarantee that it’s going to be great. Right. Like what if the facilitators sucks? Oh my God. That can happen. Totally blowhard. Who won’t shut the fuck up. That always happens other shit where you’re like, what are you talking about? Right. Or there’s like the scary, angry guy.

Where you’re like, okay, so you’re stuck over there. So it’s not a perfect thing. So maybe like play around with it also, maybe don’t decide that support groups aren’t for you based on one time. Yeah, because it could be that thing where you’re like, you just didn’t find your people because of fit. It turned out the support group that really, oh my God.

I love this people was a drop-in group for hospice. Through a hospital system. That’s not mine and everybody’s spouse was dead. And I was like, oh my God, I didn’t know. I was in dead spouse club. And they’re like, you’re such a great sport. And I was like, I was looking for dads, moms club, but I don’t like those people.

And speaking of dead moms club, there is a group of local women here in Sacramento that have been corralled together. And it’s like, we have one friend in common. Who decided to get us all together to celebrate Mueller mother’s day with other people who had lost their moms. And then we would do it around mother’s day and we would do it around Christmas.

And literally we have like one friend in common. We live in this area and I was like, I love these women because we could get real fast. We talked about like, What our relationship with our mom was like, what we’re missing, what we’re not w w it, it fast-tracked friendship. And do I see these gals outside of what I now call dead moms club?

Not a lot, not usually. And sometimes I’ll be like, how do I know so-and-so? And I’m like dead moms club. 

Michelle: [00:33:04] It just, there’s this shared language that only you all 

Tami: [00:33:08] understand. And there’s also in this group and irreverence about. I mean, you can tell that from the name. Right? Right. Yeah. Like somebody who’s super uptight is not going to be like I’m in dead moms club.

Right. Also we didn’t even have, we didn’t even open up to people who had dead dads. It was really, it was very pure group lessons are so great. Any other self care stuff that you can think of? Just so 

Michelle: [00:33:35] much grace, which is a lot of what we’ve talked about in this series. Just grace, you’re not doing it wrong.

You don’t have to do it like anybody else. Treating yourself 

Tami: [00:33:49] like someone you care about, treating yourself 

Michelle: [00:33:54] tenderly. And those things just, they can sound so cheesy, but that’s really just treating yourself. Well, as you, as though you are your own favorite person, 

Tami: [00:34:05] I know when I would say sometimes, cause this is a lot of stuff.

Like what I’m about to talk about is like the unsexy stuff. Like you’re going to need to drink water. You’re going to need to eat something, even if you’re not hungry. Cause that’s the other thing you’re like you’re some people are ravenous. So people are like, I don’t need anymore, but the idea is how would you care for your best friend in this situation?

Like how can you nurture yourself and nourish yourself through this really hard time? And so one of the tricks that some people really need is to refer to your grieving self in the third person. So that you can, especially, if you are somebody who. Is like an Enneagram to a helper or an obliger who’s like I do everything for everybody else or is female because, human givers syndrome as the Nagorski sisters talk about in the very great book burnout we’re conditioned to give, give, give, give, give.

So if we can refer to ourselves in the third person, or even like, by your nickname, like I like. Michelle could be like, I got to take care of Shelly. Right. And I, and I would be like, Tams needs a nap. Yeah. Tom’s needs to eat. And just to like really love up on yourself and to learn, to accept not edX, but ACC accept help when it comes your way to let people be generous with you.

And you do not have to reciprocate. I can’t stress that enough because there seems to be a lot of transactional, like, oh, that person did something nice for me. And now I need to do something nice for them. Not in grief. You don’t, it’s a one-way street. You it’s, you pay it forward with the next person in your crowd that needs it.

Michelle: [00:36:01] You don’t even need to send a thank you card. 

Tami: [00:36:04] Now you should resist that actually. Yeah. Cause that should wake you up in the middle of the night. Like. Oh, my God. I forgot to do the thing. Like all social niceties are kind of off. Yup.

Yeah. Can you think of any other grief specific self-care right off the top of your head? Well, 

Michelle: [00:36:27] I would encourage people to go back and listen to episode 83, we had a lot of great tips in there, like specific things to do. 

Tami: [00:36:37] Is that where we were talking about symptoms? No, 

Michelle: [00:36:40] that was what to do when you’ve lost someone or something.

Tami: [00:36:44] Yeah. 

Michelle: [00:36:45] Yeah. So we really get into the nitty-gritty there. And yeah, I can’t think of anything else off the top of my head. 

Tami: [00:36:54] Yeah. I’m actually giggling. Cause I just found my grief checklist. Number one, it says eat the next one says shower. That’s right. I need to these just wait until I get to the brush, your teeth one and it’s all on a checklist.

So I have, I have wash your hair. This feels good to you. Because, like, I can’t be bothered to wash my hair drive to see the leaves, read a grief book or spiritual book. Like when I’m grieving, all I want to do is read nonfiction texts about grief, because maybe I’m a weirdo. I have specific physical therapy I have to do for some of my pieces that are falling apart.

So I’m like, do your hip PT do your shoulder PT because even though you’re sad. Okay. Your shit still needs to be cared for. Go outside. Here’s a big one. Stay off social media. I was like, I don’t actually care what you guys are having for Thanksgiving. My best friend died. I can bring a room down real fast.

If you want to talk about recipes right now, right? Meditation writing, write a letter to tests, ask for help support sleep. Rest slash nap. Take a bath. Be with my best girl. Watch baking. If you guys, I have to tell you, there are some really good shows to watch in deep grief and the great British baking show is one of them because everybody is so kind on that show and it is just lovely.

And then the last one I said was treat yourself, buy stuff to make yourself feel better. Soft clothes, pajamas, candles face massager. Plants punching bag, whatever you need, Lance or punching bag. Yeah. Take your medicine, get dressed in cozy clothes, practice, yoga walk. So like all of these things are, I talk about these things with my clients and here’s the thing.

And you know this from your clients too, like a lot of people resist doing the thing that will make them feel better. Yeah. So, if you’re struggling with that, maybe get a gentle accountability person, somebody who’s like, we should do, we should go on a walk and I’m going to come and pick you up.

Right. All you have to do is put your shoes on, right? I’ll bring you a cup of hot cocoa or whatever, right. To yourself, be loved on by you and the people around you. Okay. All right. Next week, Michelle and I are going to go deep. Into grief resources that we love. We’re going to have websites, organizations, books, podcasts, audio books, hell.

We may have a YouTube channel. We may have movie recommendations. So be on the lookout for all of our. As I would like to say excellent recommendations. And again, you can find us both on Instagram. She, as at Michelle Marla Han and I’m at Tami Hackbarth as always, you can find the show notes over on my website at

And until next week, remember that you matter too.