n this episode, we are going to walk people through something that most people are super uncomfortable with. And that is how do we be with people who are suffering and in pain? Because most of us, like a lot of like first reaction from people as.

“Oh, my God. I think I need to make that stop”. We want to stop the bleeding, but as we talked about last week, and what’s not helpful, trying to make people feel better in this kind of loss suffering, that doesn’t feel better. It feels like people are denying the existence of your pain and discounting how much this can weigh on someone.

Show links:



Tami: In this episode, we are going to walk people through something that most people are super uncomfortable with. And that is how do we be with people who are suffering and in pain? Because most of us, like a lot of like first reaction from people as.

Oh, my God. I think I need to make that stop. We like, we want to stop the bleeding, but as we talked about last week, and what’s not helpful, trying to make people feel better in this kind of loss suffering, that doesn’t feel better. It feels like people are denying the existence of your pain and discounting how much this can weigh on someone.

So tell me what you think about. This about what I just said and how you’re really good at being with people in pain, like weirdly. So y’all need to get yourself a Michelle, but, so how do you, what’s your thoughts on that? 

Michelle: [00:01:11] Well, thanks and somewhere, are you’re also really good at it. And I think the commonality between us and what.

The biggest focus is don’t try to fix 

Tami: [00:01:24] it. 

Michelle: [00:01:25] I’m trying to fix it in any way. And I know that, I mean, we’ll talk more about what that means, but when we try to fix, it’s basically saying, please don’t feel that way. Please don’t have emotion, please. Don’t talk about that. Please. Don’t cry. You’re making me really 

Tami: [00:01:40] comfortable in your voice when you’re like, please don’t.

Cry, please. That makes me uncomfortable. Please stop doing that. Very natural human thing. 

Michelle: [00:01:49] Yes. And that’s what fixing, you know, even sometimes And I know this can be such an intuitive response, such a natural response for people, but even like a hug, like if someone is crying and we go to, you know, give them a hug, rub them on the back, that feels really nurturing.

It feels very supportive. And yet it can have this message of like, Oh God, please stop. Right. And so how can we be with people and just let them be themselves? Well, don’t try to fix them. And I think the second most important thing is just shut up. And that’s my favorite. 

Tami: [00:02:31] Listen, just because it’s not about, it’s not about you in that moment.

You’re just like, you know what, let me hold your hair while you’re barfing. Let me hold your purse while you like knocked. I was going to say, knock this bitch in the next week, but you know, it’s like, be your person. Like you’re a support person in this role, like wear the short Cape of like, I’m just going to be here.

Holding your purse if you need it. Yes. 

Michelle: [00:02:58] Yeah. Yeah. So saying less because there isn’t anything to do. There is no magic words. There’s no, there’s nothing you can say. There’s nothing you can do. That’s going to make it miraculously better or easy. So, really the most helpful thing is to just. Let your person be exactly as they are, as uncomfortable as that might be for you.

Let them. Cry, let them tell stories, let them be silent, just sitting in that silence. And I know I’ve told you the story, but I will share it because it really, from my loss with the baby, that entire, I had this timeframe where I didn’t know there was this not knowing period where. We thought something was wrong from a blood test, but didn’t have definitive had to wait for an amniocentesis.

And so there were like three or four weeks where I had this news and it was just devastating. It was so terrible. And I had a friend, I had some dear friends who, you know, were really great support people. I have a friend, who’s a therapist and she came over and sat. She sat at a little bit of a distance away from me on the couch and.

I was in my little like fetal position that I’d been in for weeks and she just sat there and eventually I just started talking, boom, like talking all my feeling, crying, talking, silence, crying, talking silence. And I don’t even remember her saying a word, but it was the most profound experience of like being held.

That I had other people in my life who came and, you know, hugs and touches and I’m so sorry, and I want to come for you. And that was also lovely and supportive in its own way. But that one experience of just having the space, it stands out to me is one of those memories that’s just profound. So you don’t have to do it.

And in some ways isn’t that great. Like pressure’s off. You don’t have to try to fix it. You don’t have to make it better. 

Tami: [00:05:14] You don’t even have to reciprocate is that cause you know, so much of relationships that we have with our peers is about you don’t want to be somebody who takes too much. You don’t want to be the person who gives more than everyone else.

But sometimes that dynamic is one person is the needer and one person is the needed. And when you’re the needed, all you have to do. I get this picture of like a gray rock. I know that it has all like, are to do with like narcissism and stuff. But the idea is like it’s comforting or do you know what?

I also heard about it in terms of parenting teenagers, which is you want to be around, they call it like the potted plant theory. You want to be there in the background in case they want to say something, but. Under no circumstances, do the plant start fucking talking because plants don’t talk. Plants are receivers.

And it also reminds me of, again, that thing, where do we call it? It’s the complain out support in what is that thing called? I don’t know that thing. Well, maybe it was somebody else I was talking to about that. I saw it in the LA times and it looks like a, it looks like a ski ball. It’s like in a little circle, a bigger circle.

And the thing in the middle is the person who is the direct recipient of the suffering, whether it be the diagnosis or the loss. And so say my best friend died. So I am the center and the people around me in the ring are my family. Their job is to support me. And if I am in some way, Needing more or they’re needing to complain about whatever it is about me.

They are to turn around, to face the outside of this. They are never to complain about me or my grief or my thing. And they are to turn around and go to the thing, their support circle, which is on the outside of that, that goes ring by ring. And I was explaining this to my child. Because in the terms of the loss of tests, like her immediate family, like her mom, her brother and sister, her nephew’s inside the ring, I’m on the ring outside of them.

And so. Like I only offer support in, how can I help? I will do this? Yes. I’ll write an obituary. Yes. I’ll research this. And when I need support, I turn around and go to the outer ring. So I go to my people who are not in that inner ring does that, you know what I mean? Totally. And, 

Michelle: [00:08:03] but you 

Tami: [00:08:03] also, so you’re this plane into the person who’s in pain.

No. Right. And there is a hierarchy of pain in case anyone’s wondering

to tell you that, but we are keeping track. Yeah. 

Michelle: [00:08:19] We’re we are keeping track. I love that. That’s really brilliant. Yeah. So should we talk about, I mean, aside from, you know, showing up saying 

Tami: [00:08:28] less. 

Michelle: [00:08:31] Some practical things like, no, really what can I do? How can I be of support? Let’s talk 

Tami: [00:08:36] about that.

Yes. Which reminds me, Hey everyone, I have one of Michelle’s dishes. Cause she brought me this lovely meal after test died and it’s on my coffee table with a piece of tape that says Michelle, that means my clue to my family. Like please stop using her dishes. We need to get this back to her. So Hey guys.

Bringing food is so lovely. Oh my God. After we had a baby, I was happy to get food. After my mom died, I was happy to be fed. After tests died, I was happy to be fed and it didn’t matter to me what it was. It was just as long as I could eat it. So again, check with your people and maybe not directly with the person, the loss, but maybe someone around there.

It says, are there any dietary restrictions? Yeah. Because if you show up with like, a shell cream, a shellfish cream sauce at my house, I’m going to weep because I’m deathly allergic to those things right now. What would you like a steak? Yeah. 

Michelle: [00:09:36] No, thank you. But someone actually did bring some soup to me literally the next day.

And so sweet right. Comes to the door. Handsome me the soup, just beaming with love. So generous and says it’s totally vegetarian. It has a little bit of chicken stock, but otherwise, and I just thought, Oh, okay, so close. So close. Close. 

Tami: [00:10:03] Yeah. And then, and again, it’s lovely, but like we had to share some stuff with neighbors because I was like, I can’t eat this or now we have too much of that.

And that’s so. I think food might be my love language or one of them I’m going to make up new love languages. So definitely bring food and it doesn’t have to be prepared food. You ready for this? How about bring me some popcorn and some soda and some just straight up junk food, some potato chips in your purse.

I love chips, which you tastes like barbecued potato chips. Yeah. Like, so you don’t have to be a fancy cook to like serve it up to your 

Michelle: [00:10:46] peeps. That’s right. Yeah. It could be takeout. I could, you know, it can be any fan percent. So I will say too, let’s talk just a little bit more in depth about the food. So what in reflection, what I would have liked to have done with your delivery is to write on it.

No need to return the dish, right? Because I don’t want you to have to worry about that. I don’t want that. I want it to just be like, great. I can throw it away. I can use it. I can donate it. I don’t have to worry about getting this back to 

Tami: [00:11:18] her. I know. I have to tell you that. So that’s a good one. 

Michelle: [00:11:24] Yeah.

And I’m 

Tami: [00:11:25] sorry, I didn’t do that. No, it’s okay. So that would, 

Michelle: [00:11:28] that’s like advanced level for, you know, for those of you who are taking notes, that’s next level and here’s the other next level options. You can just do a door drop, like a porch drop or a front door drop, and then go. And then texts from the car, you know, like I’ve left this.

If you want to, you know, I’m, I’ll be here. I’ll sit here for five minutes. If you want to come out. I’d love to see you. If you are doing your thing, if you don’t get the text, if you don’t feel like company, just know that I’m sitting here holding you, you know, loving you and then I’ll leave, or you could do that before, you know, give some notice.

I’m going to drop food off at five. If you want company, you know, I’ll do it at the door. You can come out and if not, I’m just going to drop and leave. I love you. 

Tami: [00:12:20] That’s a super introvert tip. Oh my God, because I have to say so many people did that and I would be like hiding in the back room. And my extroverted family was like, like doing a tap dance on the, somebody brought us food and they’re strangers here at our house were all massed.

Oh my God, this is the best day ever. We have company. And I was like, what are you doing? And they’re like these nice people that we’ve never met in our life. I’m like, but what do they look like? Who are they. 

Michelle: [00:12:51] Sorry, these masks people, 

Tami: [00:12:53] right. And there, and then I would get a text from or a message from somebody who I am like, Oh my God, well, you got to meet my family.

Sorry about them. They’re a little embarrassing because they’re really starved for outside attention at this point. And I will never be that person. So yeah, that’s a good one. 

Michelle: [00:13:12] Yeah. Especially in the throws of it. Like he just. You might not, you might hide under the couch when someone comes to the door and wait until they go away.

And just to have that permission of like, you know, you don’t have to, but if you want to I’m 

Tami: [00:13:29] here. So also, because there’s a lot of pajamas and bed, hair. 

Michelle: [00:13:36] Oh, puffy 

Tami: [00:13:37] eyes and puffy eyes. And like, did I brush my teeth and totally when like when did I smell Amazon? Yeah. So it can be kinda 

Michelle: [00:13:49] ugly. Yeah. And so, you know what, that totally reminds me.

If said person with that description does come to the door. Do not say like, Oh my God, like, Oh, what happened? You know, no comment Harry aloud about the state. Yeah. Or condition or odor of the person. Like 

Tami: [00:14:09] just not even in your head. 

Michelle: [00:14:12] That’s just their moment. Let them be if they’re still doing that in a year.

Okay. You know, let’s talk with gentle 

Tami: [00:14:21] talk, 

Michelle: [00:14:22] gentle talk, but 

Tami: [00:14:24] to the person who’s closest to them to ask them to do the talk because it’s probably not going to be received from you. Yeah. Yeah. Another thing that was super helpful, cause you know, Grief during regular times is already fucked up, but grief during a pandemic is next fucking level.

Yeah. So people came through in the way that they. Somebody just straight up, had fuzzy socks and tea delivered from Amazon to my house. And I was like, yes, are you kidding me? And it was also, it was November. We, there was nine pairs of socks in this pack. My family was like, I’m going to need a pair of those.

So everyone in my family has them. I have the rest of them and we call them our grief socks. Oh, somebody else brought by. A blanket, a fuzzy blanket that looks like a golden doodle. It’s so soft and nubby and fuzzy and we call it. Yes, that’s right. People, the grief blanket. And I sleep with it every single night.

She also brought tea. And what was else was in that bag? Oh, snacks straight up. Sinec food. A journal, a candle, so many candles. Yeah, especially see now we’re going to get into seasonal grief, giving grief gift, giving you if you have sadness in the darkest times of the year. Oh, my God, those cozy and candle items and super smelly bubble bath, all that stuff.

I was like here for it. You have served people. Yeah. And we got about 200 gallons of soup. Yeah. Store bought cafe made homemade from Costco, like every kind of soup. And I was like, Okay. Soup is my love language. Here we are. It is soup season and my people came 

Michelle: [00:16:43] through. Yeah. 

Tami: [00:16:45] Nice. So what are some non-food things that have come your way that were like, Oh wow.

That, that scratched an itch. I didn’t know. I had. I don’t 

Michelle: [00:16:53] know that I’ve had anything so out of the ordinary. And I mean, I think that’s also just a great reminder that it can be the very ordinary average, you know, that might seem well, this is a little boring or mundane and it’s not that it’s just a lovely to receive any kind of receiving.

So, what’s coming to mind for me is I’ve recently had a hysterectomy because I had endometrial cancer, which was a little bit. Just bananas. And, Oh my gosh, the number of cards that I got cards like literally on the porch or on the front step, when I would look outside or in the mailbox mail to me dropped off and again, like a drop and run little baggies of different treats.

Someone went to our local vegan gluten-free bakery and bought some treats for me with a card. Well, 

Tami: [00:17:49] You can totally sponsor us. We would like some Greek cupcakes please. 

Michelle: [00:17:56] Oh, I know the owners I’ll do a shout out. Okay. What else? Flowers, lots and lots of flowers. Which flowers can be a mixed bag, like right, because they die and then you have to take care of it.

You got to clean up the mess. So I know flowers are a really typical thing. You’re just going to have to feel that out. Like 

Tami: [00:18:17] what’s the season is that a couple of weeks ago, I mentioned that flowers. Weren’t my forte. And then in the next breath, I was like, Oh my God, I got the most beautiful bouquet.

And what was so weird about that is what we got. We got a bunch of flowers, but. Do you know how some florists, when they find out it’s for a death, then it turns into funeral flowers and you’re like, who months? Funeral flowers in their house doing that somebody else just sent me a gorgeous bouquet of all white flowers.

So when I said, I want flowers, I think I don’t want Funeral flowers, sad flowers. I don’t want sad flowers. 

Michelle: [00:18:59] Yeah. So a good one can be an orchid because it does last for a long time typically. Right. They last a lot longer. So that can be good. If you know, flowers are your thing and you really feel like you want that kind of message and brightening and all of that.

If you love giving flowers, try 

Tami: [00:19:19] and orchid. Also when my mom died six years ago, the guys from my brothers work many States away from mine, sent me a peace Lily. Like a plant. I still have it should still plant a plant now. Yeah. Can everyone, well, here’s the thing it’s like, is your friend have, does your friend have other houseplants?

Yeah, if they do a houseplant, might be in the cards for you. Does your friend regularly get flowers? In have cut flowers in their home. If yes, flowers might be for, you 

Michelle: [00:19:59] know, your person know your 

Tami: [00:20:00] person because otherwise if you give a black thumb a plant, they’re going to be like, wow, thanks. Thanks for something else to kill.

Now I can feel bad about that too. Right. And it’s funny because I’m like, and we’re making it sound complicated, but it’s really not because if you’re doing this for somebody, you know them. Yeah. You’ll know them. Yeah, 

Michelle: [00:20:24] Yeah. No one thing I did get that was so sweet from someone unexpected, not in my super close circle.

Left again on the porch, a little vase, a sweet little vase with a Camillea flower, and then around the vase, a little bracelet, this little gold, just tiny bracelet with a, that was inscribed with be strong. I mean, It was really sweet and I put it on and it just felt so nice to have that on my arm, as I was lounging in bed and, you know, feeling sad and confused.

Tami: [00:20:58] Do you know what was an unexpected gift? I got one time, another friend from out of state was like, Oh my God, I didn’t know what to do. So she sent me like the sweetest card and she sent me a check for $40. And in the note she said, I can’t imagine trying to like grieve properly with a preschooler around, please use this money to hire a babysitter.

So you can just cry somewhere. And I was like, God, because I know she had been in town, she would have swept up my kid and like whisked her away. So I could really properly have a good cry, but because she couldn’t be there and I was like, how thoughtful. How thoughtful of you. Yeah. 

Michelle: [00:21:46] Yeah. Oh, that’s great. The other thing is, I think, did we talk about texts?

Just like doing the text check-ins we did. We’ve 

Tami: [00:21:54] talked. We have, but I think that it could, I honestly think we could revisit let’s revisit the text thread. Yeah, 

Michelle: [00:22:04] just the text. Check-ins like. Checking in, right. That’s sort of your stay, like, just checking in, just 

Tami: [00:22:10] checking in or thinking about you, 

Michelle: [00:22:13] thinking if you sending, you know, sending you love whatever your communication style is.

And if a question feels appropriate or once in a while, like tell me about you, you know, how are you as so, bland and. 

Tami: [00:22:31] I feel like it’s bland, but yet weirdly loaded 

Michelle: [00:22:33] because it’s like, it’s totally right. Yeah. So, you know, tell me about you. How are you today? How are you right now? How’s your heart? How’s your heart is a great one.

So yeah, the texture just like staying present without being it’s like I’m avail, it’s the potted plant I’m available. I’m not going to be a stalker. I don’t want to force you to reveal everything to me, but like I’m totally here. 

Tami: [00:23:05] Yeah. And I’ve just say I use this. Texting, these, this exact like framework every few weeks, I go through my texts list and I’m like, I haven’t talked to in a while and I’ll say, Hey, I was just thinking about you.

Hey, how are you? I have not spoken to you. And sometimes it’s just because somebody flashed into my head and whenever somebody flashes in my head or I have a dream about them or whatever, I think. I’m apparently supposed to contact that person. 

Michelle: [00:23:34] Yep. Yeah. Those little flashes of intuition. If somebody is popping up for you, just follow it, just follow up on that.

Say hello, you don’t even if it isn’t like a grand moment for them, it just makes someone’s day. Like it’s thinking about 

Tami: [00:23:53] me and a lot of times people go so weird. I was just thinking about you too. Yeah, 

Michelle: [00:23:58] totally. Yeah, totally good one. Yeah. 

Tami: [00:24:02] Oh God. Did I tell you about my grief joggers? And also, can we just talk about joggers are the new millennium sweatpants?

So I am somebody who in non COVID times. Slash non-Greek times. I am almost always in real clothes. It’s hilarious. I’m literally wearing my pajamas and a tank top right now. Cause I got distracted today, but like I’m address person. I am a jeans and a sweater and that Abeta I’m that person. I mean, I always have my slippers on because you know, girls got standards that it works at home.

So. But in that moment between finding out test died and my brain going offline, I was like, Oh, I’m going to need some soft pants. Right. And so I reached out to my people and I was like, tell me people with my same body shape. Hello, you got to know your peeps. I was like, tell me the soft pants options.

Another friend sent me some pajamas. What you guys. There’s nothing there. Like what kind of pajamas do you wear? Also? Don’t just be getting random pajamas, but like, cause I’m a hundred percent cotton drawstring, pajama gal, 365 days of the year. Like I can have a whole episode just on those pajamas. Like when pajamas show up in the mail.

Oh. Cause you’re not wearing regular clothes anymore. It’s pretty fantastic. Yeah. And I did order some soft pants and I put them on joggers and I thought these are the most ridiculously, comfortable things I’ve ever put on. And then I looked at myself in the mirror and I was like, I’m wearing sweat pants with ankle cuffs and pockets.

Right. But they’re trendy. Sweat pants with ankle cups and pockets. They 

Michelle: [00:25:58] are acceptable to wear outside of the house. 

Tami: [00:26:01] Well, it’s hilarious. Cause I literally don’t think they’ve ever seen the light of day because you know, they could. Right. So, what is your, if somebody was gonna give you a comfort item, so we’ve covered pajamas, soft pants.

Ooh. I just had a flash of like maybe a scarf, like something really soft socks. 

Michelle: [00:26:27] Yeah, I did. I think I did get a C I’ve gotten a couple of scarves from people and I’m a big scarf person. So that made sense. Little symbolic things that apply either to the loss or to the person who has experienced the loss.

Like I did get a really precious statue of a GSO, which is a little, he’s the little protector of the unborn. Children, someone sent that to me. And I it’s on my nightstand. Like I rub his little head every night before I go to sleep, it’s really become a part of my life. So that was a real gift and it was great because then I didn’t know what it was.

And then I went and I researched and. You know, read stories and got to learn more about what this little guy symbolizes and kind of took me down a different path that felt really. Sweet and supportive and gave me something else to focus on for a little bit. And it has all kinds of meanings. So that was 

Tami: [00:27:28] great.

And I’m just I’m sitting here like, again, agreeing like a bubble head because it’s that thing it’s like, we’re not strangers to grief at all. And yet this person opened this whole new pathway and you’re like, Oh shit, this exists. Ooh. That is good. Yeah. Yeah. 

Michelle: [00:27:48] Yep. And actually, I would say my favorite present from my hysterectomy a couple of months ago.

My friend Alicia sent me a giant pink fuzzy uterus. Have I not shown you? My 

Tami: [00:28:05] uterus? I don’t think you have. 

Michelle: [00:28:08] I think you saw a picture of 

Tami: [00:28:10] a uterus, a name, I didn’t 

Michelle: [00:28:13] name 

Tami: [00:28:14] her. So cute 

Michelle: [00:28:19] is big. I mean, she’s almost as broad as my shoulders. I know I was 

Tami: [00:28:24] like, she might’ve be bigger than the real thing. 

Michelle: [00:28:27] She’s way bigger than the real thing.

She has ovaries and everything, but I really did. Love this, it made me happy. I, when I opened the box, I obviously have no idea what it was and I opened the box. And first I started like I squealed and I started laughing and then I started crying and it was all good. You know, it was like it 

Tami: [00:28:48] was just.

Michelle: [00:28:50] Very hilarious. So bright neon pink as a 

Tami: [00:28:54] uterus. I have to say that again. You’re like I had no idea I needed that. And this is the thing, friends. Like you want to be the person that delights your loved ones with the thing that they didn’t even know they needed. Yeah, like this is, it’s so interesting. So I’ve had tons of conversations with people around memorializing, their loss.

So like there’s jewelry that you can put ashes in or there’s tattoo parlors and tattoo artists that will put ashes in the ink while you get your tattoo. There’s you know what I mean? Like there’s all these decorative things. Maybe it’s a plant, maybe like my step-mom got a guitar back from when her son died and somebody had it mounted.

And it’s this like this memorabilia that is, would mean nothing to anyone else, but you think, Oh my God, because you feel so seen because it’s exactly the thing. That makes you think of your person 

Michelle: [00:30:09] again, all of that has the flavor of meeting you where you are not let’s look to the future and let’s let it go and let’s move forward and, you know, can you not be that way?

It’s just, I meet you exactly here. And, you know, even if that’s painful, even if it’s painful for me, of course, it’s painful for you, but like I’m meeting you here and. This is the reality of where we are. There’s nothing I can do to make that better. 

Tami: [00:30:39] And one other thing I was on a Facebook group the other day, and somebody had said, Oh, a friend of mine, a neighbor lost their child, their teenage child, blah, blah, blah.

They wanted to do something to help the family. They wanted to like do this. And my, what I said was. Send a card now to acknowledge their loss. And then like three months from now, send them dinner, cinema, GrubHub card, send them a gift certificate for nights out, because at the beginning, when you’re, you know, stumbling around in your grief fog, like I honestly am like, who brought us dinner?

I don’t know but at the three month Mark. When 

Michelle: [00:31:27] people start, stop, start to forget 

Tami: [00:31:29] when everyone’s moved on from your boss. And maybe they hope you have to it’s the people who were like, Hey. Like I have a group of friends who are like, March is really hard for you. Like it’s, Tess’s birthday anniversary of your mom and your stepdad dying.

They, everyone trying to ruin my birthday March is really hard for me. And it’s also really wonderful because I love my birthday. And then I was at a grief support group this week. And so we’re recording this before mother’s day. And so we talked a bit about mother’s day because there’s a lot of people who lost their moms there and they’re having their experience about losing their moms.

And even though they are moms, it’s still a thing. And you know, I’m six years out from losing my mom. And so mother’s day, it has less stinging for me now, but I have another friend who lost her mom. And her grandma in may and it’s mother’s day, it’s this thing. It’s like we each ultimately I think we’re, it’s like we have our grief scorecard, like where you’re like, what month is hard for you?

What month is hard for you? When I think most of us can agree that like, from Halloween through new years can be super hard for everyone. Because you’re missing your people during the time where most people in the world are celebrating some stuff and being with their people. But let’s see, other times a year, like 4th of July is my mom’s birthday.

Well, blue on that. I’m always super bah humbug on 4th of July. And people look at me, I’m like, well, it’s 200 degrees. It’s my mom’s birthday and she’s not having any more birthdays. So 

Michelle: [00:33:08] yeah. You know, that makes me think too about let’s say someone’s someone died of something that is specific. Another idea is to send a donation to an organization that.

Cares for people or is doing research or is associated with the reason for their death. You know, something linked there. That can be another way to kind of personally connect. And, 

Tami: [00:33:33] Just say, I’m thinking, you know, what’s crazy that sea is all coming flooding back. So, you know, I was. Very invested in flipping the Senate blue in 2020.

I don’t know if you guys know that, but have you met Tammy? Yeah. And test was two and after tests died, another friend made a significant donation to fair fight Stacey Abrams organization on behalf of me and Tess. And I was like, okay. I could not have been more touched. I was like, I could actually cry about that now, because again, it’s like that thing where it feels you’re like, I feel so seen and heard and understood like you person, who’s not living in my head or my house, or even my town is seeing me and my person and what we lost and what we really cared about to me.

Michelle: [00:34:29] That’s the crux of it. Tammy is. Like when these situations arise, we get kind of paralyzed where like the perfect thing to say. I’m so uncomfortable or I don’t want to upset them. And to just like, relax back and just go into that place in your heart. That’s like, I know this is a person I love. What do I know about this person?

What is important to them? You know, like someone knew that is important. That is an essential part of who you are, who tests is and was. And so that speaks to you and the relationship and the values. So just like if you find yourself feeling a little bit paralyzed, all this weird pressure to do the right thing, just chillax for a minute and just go back into that place of like, You know, this person, you love them.

What do you know about them? What do you know that they love or enjoy or could use, like, just get really practical. 

Tami: [00:35:35] I love that. And there’s always this thing called ask a question and that question can be what would be helpful to you right now? Yeah. Bottle of bourbon, some cotton candy, a hug. Do you want to laugh?

Do you need a recommendation for something that will a hundred percent make you cry? Do you want a book recommendation that will take your mind completely off? Yeah. Which reminds me in a couple of episodes. We’re going to be talking about all of our favorite grief resources. Before we go, do you have any other.

Thoughts on how to be with people who are suffering and, or in pain.

Michelle: [00:36:18] I feel like we’ve covered it and it may just bear repeating that it can really bring up our own stuff. So. It might be that you find yourself doing a little bit of your own work. When someone close to you loses someone or something, because it might bring up a lot of stuff for you. Just don’t be surprised by that.

It’s very natural and unless you’ve already done a lot of therapy, a lot of your own loss work, it’s totally normal for it to. Kind of bring up your own shit. That feels really hard and uncomfortable work 

Tami: [00:36:57] that shit out. On someone else. Yes. Not with the person in pain, no 

Michelle: [00:37:05] deal with that stuff separately and keep it really clean, like, okay.

That is over there. It doesn’t have anything to do with this person that I love. I’m going to deal with that over here. And you know, right now I’m going to be with my person in this way. And then I’m going to go over here and deal with this stuff that it’s brought up for me because. I mean, that’s just your own evolution and development, so that’s great.

Tami: [00:37:34] Yeah. Remember we don’t complain in. We support in and complain out. We support in and we get our own help on our own time. Thanks for being with me on this. Get better at grief series, Michelle. I love it so much. We do. Hey friends if you haven’t connected with Michelle and I on the Instagram, so you can find her at Michelle Marla Han and me at Tami Hackbarth.

And as always, you can find the show notes on the website at www.tamihackbarth.com/podcast. And until next week, remember that you matter too.